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Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

where.coraline.codes

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Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#401

Post by Cthulhu_ »

romanovcode wrote: post #400
throwaway8800 wrote: post #128

There's a couple of issues that stand out to me: Github is engaging in risky behaviour by reaching out to individuals (specifically activists) for hire explicitly on the basis of "diversity" and trying to incorporate those individuals in a highly merit-based environment. Secondly, Coraline seems to think that human relationships are a one way street: that she is entitled to be direct and even confrontational or insen…

> Github is engaging in risky behaviour by reaching out to individuals (specifically activists) for hire explicitly on the basis of "diversity" and trying to incorporate those individuals in a highly merit-based environment. This is the main issue right there. If anyone is reading this and wants to have a lot of HR/PR related problems in his/her company - start doing this and problems will pile up.

The reasoning behind that is (probably) that unless they hire for diversity, it will remain a highly merit-based environment. Have to start somewhere.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#402

Post by phlakaton »

pmiller2 wrote: post #327
DannyBee wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I've never heard of a PIP working out and both the company and employee being happy " At least where i've worked, they work out about 50% of the time. That tracks with the PIP's i've been involved in. I can also give you anecdotes if you like, but i'm not sure you care. "This practice seems pretty common in California, but given California is an at-will employment state, I'm not even sure why. " I'd agree plenty of…

From your experience, what makes the difference between a successful and an unsuccessful PIP?

As a senior engineer, here's how the decision to PIP or not has been explained to me: Is there a clear and actionable plan where the employee would be welcome to stay on the team if they complete it?

It's a simply stated requirement but difficult, I think, to fulfill. Often there's not a clear path forward to fix the problem(s). Employers don't always make this judgment of what needs to be done correctly. And, of course, there's always the possibility that the employee doesn't follow through on their end.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#403

Post by gerbal »

How would HN be reacting if this were written by and about a man?

There are a lot of gender expectations that punish assertive and matter of fact women as 'bitchy' and 'insensitive'. If a white guy behaves the same way no one thinks twice about it. To me it sounds like management at Github is uncomfortable with her perspectives. We often see women and minorities censured for not trying to conform to the model of a demure, inoffensive, and compliant minority.

Much like the comments here, Github management appears to prefer to focus on the perceived personality flaws of someone who makes others uncomfortable by her presence rather than underlying issues causing their discomfort.

The "insensitivity" mentioned in the piece appears to be largely based on the fact that the author behaves much like a white guy would in these situations.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#404

Post by lz400 »

To me this sounds too much like one side of the story. There's no proof of anything and there are a few red flags so I don't know if this is all true or it's a hit piece on GH. I've no idea and if anything, I find amusing to read so many comments that are so sure how things went down one or the other way. To quote a guy, whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#405

Post by phlakaton »

LordHumungous wrote: post #396
verinus wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I wonder where the hate in this comment comes from- I can not draw the same conclusions from the blog post and imho your comment tells a lot more about yourself that the case at hand.

No hate. I see a self-absorbed person who is unable to see their own flaws and who blames everyone but themselves for their own failings. It's sad actually.

I see someone unwilling or unable to separate what they were told from the story in their head concocted to explain what they were told. Even more sad, unless you happen to be privy to certain facts of the case that we are not.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#407

Post by Shinchy »

kybernetikos wrote: post #240
eqdw wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without concrete and public metrics of "merit", it becomes a buzzword for reinforcing the biases (conscious or not) of the evaluators. I wish we could have discussions like this in the wider community without people going knee-jerk against the idea of it, itself. I'd be willing to accept that a lot of companies here are nepotistic. I'd even be willing to accept that they cloak their nepotism in the rhetoric of meri…

> Don't you want the best people, at least in principle? Maybe not. In many situations you want the best team, and the best team is not necessarily the team that has the most top flight individual contributors. The best teams I've been on seem stronger than the sum of their individual members, and I've definitely been on teams I rate less highly that had some very strong individual contributors. Along these lines, I…

Leicester City FC.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#408

Post by readittwice »

ninjaboy2 wrote: post #333
acobster wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She was right, and as a senior engineer she was in a mentor role. I don't think that directly communicating a relevant fact - that trans is not a gender - to someone contributing to a survey intended to collect data about marginalized people is the same as expecting her peers to walk on egg shells. That's just asking them to get their facts straight. Where you see an instance of her co-workers being accused of attack…

To play devil's advocate: ------------------------------ > As a senior engineer she was in a mentor role. Being in a mentor role does not mean you have to right to mentor. Assuming you have a superior position, and deciding to use it to explain something obvious to someone else as "educating" them is not a good social interaction for the other person, and may make them feel trapped and uncomfortable. The author never…

> Being in a mentor role does not mean you have to right to mentor.

Exactly. For what we know, the junior could have actively complained to the manager (wrongly or rightly) about her mentoring. OTOH the junior dev might have appreciated it. We can't say for sure.

Some people (myself included) prefer to get a general direction and then later to come back for further questions. Too much information in a short amount of time can be overwhelming, I need some time to absorb and read it up in the internet. A few keywords might be good enough to get someone going and figure it out themselves.

"learn at her own pace, without any pressure from you." This really sounds as if the manager had the junior dev's best interest in mind. I don't see how the manager said this to get back at Caroline, as was kind of implied in the article.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#409

Post by Jare »

nostrademons wrote: post #287
Jare wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine most seasoned professionals placed on a PIP will probably already have a reasonable guess if it's a BS posture or honest attempt to fix a problem. If not from the get go, definitely by the first 1:1. I guess, it doesn't really matter what the company calls this process or how it's presented, only how it is conducted. If you even mildly agree with the reasons presented for it, and you get positive feedback s…

I would imagine that most seasoned professionals who can tell this don't put themselves in a position where they are likely to get PIPed in the first place. If it's a culture fit problem, they remove themselves from consideration at organizations that don't share their values. If it's a skill problem, they work like hell to correct the problem before their manager notices.

Sometimes there are honestly mismatched expectations or understanding of how performance is measured and evaluated. Other times, people assume new roles, and some aspects of the new role are not prioritized correctly or just not working out. I have witnessed some such cases, and personally managed one.

Working like hell does not help if the effort is expended in the wrong place. That's where the first 1:1 will be a clear indicator if the correction is working or not - if it's not working it may be a failure of a honest PIP, or PIP dressing up a decision that has already been made. But honest PIPs exist, and sometimes they do work to solve a problem that was not being solved by itself.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#410

Post by Shinchy »

throw201707 wrote: post #70

This is not a comment on the experiences described in the article, but it makes me extremely sad that the word "meritocratic/meritocracy" is used pejoratively, almost as if it were damning in itself. To me, meritocracy is something to be cherished, being far preferable to the systems that came before it, and being inherently anti -discriminatory. (Yes, people's hardships which prevent them achieving their full potent…

To me Meritocracy is extremely important, it's one of the very few things we have left that allow poorer people to get out of their situations. We see it all the time in the Development world and it's one of the things I love the most about it. We have people who have come from poorer backgrounds around the world putting themselves into a better life through hard work and discipline. Sometimes people don't even need a degree which can be hard to obtain without a good amount of money - it's just determination and hard work. Remove the ideas of Merit from this then you lose that and once you lose it, it's unlikely you'll ever get it back
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