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US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

nytimes.com

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Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#401

Post by thatwebdude »

dhf17 wrote: post #210

I work at a major state university that is claimed to be one of the most efficient in the US. On the administrative side it is a disorganized cluster bomb, full of frivolous spending, wasteful processes, and is years behind in technology and software. The things I've seen people manually doing on a computer all day... Throw on top the spending on social justice initiatives and you have your self a fat burden to pass…

When was any university ever efficient?

When they wanted me to pay a parking ticket. They had that shit down to an exact science.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#402

Post by stale2002 »

twelve40 wrote: post #322
stale2002 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is how the college bubble would burst. People with large amounts of debt demand high salaries (because they have to pay the debt) . The bubble would burst when companies realize that they can pay someone who went to a trade school/bootcamp much less money, for a similar quality of work than that produced by the people with expensive degrees. It is already starting to happen, with the insane amount of bootcampers…

I have little idea if the current college situation is sustainable or not, but this argument sounds very similar to what we heard about outsourcing a couple of decades ago. Why keep paying all those expensive CS majors in the States when you can hire a smart person from overseas/bootcamp for fraction of the cost? Somehow we didn't quite get that malthusian glut last time.

Outsourcing would be like talking about the "American Worker Bubble".

If Americans could be replaced with outsourced people who do just as good a job for a 1/3 the price, then yes, the bubble would have popped.

The reason why that didn't happen is because an American worker really is worth the money you pay them.

With college, maybe the 200K degree DOES actually make you 200K smarter and more efficient.

If that is the case, then the college degree isn't a bubble. It is backed up by actual value.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#403

Post by lr4444lr »

stupidhn wrote: post #343
lr4444lr wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite how it works. Ted deposits $100. The bank lends it out up to the multiple allowed by the fractional reserve system[0] to the businessman for the store, who has to pay interest on that mortgage, and interest must also be paid to Ted by the bank. Bob deposits the $100 himself back into the bank, which is loanable at a different fraction so that the series of additional deposits eventually converges. Presumabl…

> The bank lends it out up to the multiple allowed by the fractional reserve system Banks are not reserve constrained, and anyone can create as much credit as they wish.

Really? Explain that to the people in charge[0].

[0]https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/reservereq.htm

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#404

Post by muninn_ »

ceejayoz wrote: post #385
muninn_ wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies, I meant to type "the large majority of great universities". Obviously there are more universities across the planet combined than there are in the United States.

I remain dubious of that updated claim. The UK alone has several Ivy-level institutions.

Sure. There are good universities all over the planet. The US is by far the best.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#405

Post by rmah »

nojvek wrote: post #384
martin_bech wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Denmark everyone can get scholarships to pay for their entire education. That and they get a stipend for living expenses. Everyone gets this, young or old, rich or poor.

In a lot of other countries education is a lot cheaper US has become a country where profit runs everything. What happens when a large percentage of youth don't get education and make enough to buy a house?

What happens is that housing prices fall until enough people can afford them.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#406

Post by Amezarak »

lz400 wrote: post #330
lr4444lr wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admit that's a bit of a special case because the AMA restricts accreditation. I would note that schools in the Caribbean have arisen to fill that need - they are notorious for taking students who performed low on the MCAT. I believe the higher debt these students take on is commensurate with physician salaries here are in most cases much higher than in Europe.

Ok so we are talking about colleges that are so bad they don't let you get accreditation for important professions. Not sure if it's what I'm thinking about, but are those the "community colleges", liberal arts universities and stuff like that? In any case you can't study "what you want". You can't become a doctor and I'd guess not an aviation engineer, architect, etc. and expect employment in your field right? Not w…

No, medical school is a whole different ballgame. The AMA limits the number of medical students per year and tightly controls the system.

For almost all professions, you can work in that profession after getting a degree from any accredited institution (or often even an unaccredited institution.) Almost all schools are accredited. Virtually every (probably every) public university is accredited and they usually have very low admittance requirements, low costs, and generous scholarships. In many (most?) states, high test scores or a good high school GPA get you a free ride to an in-state public university.

Community college is a good way to get the first two years of a four year degree, or for an Associate's degree that, depending on your field, may be sufficient. They generally also have vocational programs.

You could most certainly become an aviation engineer, architect, etc. by going to almost any school.

The debt story is vastly overblown in the US - it's a serious problem, but mostly among middle-class to upper-middle class families who allow their kids to select the most prestigious and expensive schools, regardless of their academic qualifications, chosen major, or ability to pay. Even in 2017 you can easily get a four-year degree from a good accredited institution and graduate debt free, even if you're not an academic superstar.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#407

Post by pascalxus »

nojvek wrote: post #384
martin_bech wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Denmark everyone can get scholarships to pay for their entire education. That and they get a stipend for living expenses. Everyone gets this, young or old, rich or poor.

In a lot of other countries education is a lot cheaper US has become a country where profit runs everything. What happens when a large percentage of youth don't get education and make enough to buy a house?

thats partly because education consumers (students) keep demanding education to cost so much. If everyone applied to and went to the cheapest colleges they could find, universities would be clamoring to reduce their costs, not increase them.

of course, a big part of the problem is employers. Employers place a large value on Ivy league schools and expensive universities, thus creating the consumer demand in the first place.

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#408

Post by pascalxus »

bpchaps wrote: post #273
ryandrake wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, maybe it's different now, but my generation (went to school in the mid 90s) was not told to "just go to the best college no matter what": We were also advised to consider the cost and carefully choose a major so as to produce a positive expected ROI. Obviously nobody has a crystal ball and you can never tell when huge, industry-wrecking changes are coming, but it was well understood that majoring in Und…

I think so. It's funny, despite having a relatively damn good career without a degree, I still get constant grief from friends and family. There probably hasn't been a single family visit since leaving home where someone hasn't asked me when I'm going back to college. Even after explaining that it makes no financial sense to put myself into >$100k debt, the degree comes out as more important than anything else. It's…

just get one of those super cheap online bachelors degrees. all you really need is the certificate you get at the end - then you can be cool like everyone else ;)

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#409

Post by pascalxus »

lz400 wrote: post #139
manacit wrote: post #10

I don't know if it's a "bubble" (I am not qualified to say that), but I can't imagine that the current trend with student loans will continue. Looking at the numbers for someone entering college in 2017, it feels nearly predatory what a good portion of private and out of state colleges are charging. Even with financial aid, $30-40k a year for 4-5 years is insane. I was fortunate enough to have parents who made saving…

I truly don't understand the USA sometimes. Don't you guys know that in Europe higher education is free? Well where I'm from there was a very low nominal cost but my father was a public servant so cost was waived, I literally studied CS for 0 cost. And these countries are able to afford it all! Magic! I don't understand how people in USA are not aware of this and literally rioting in the streets. At the very least sw…

The taxes in the US are very very high. Currently the Fed/state/local govs spend almost 1 in every 3 dollars of GDP. So, if you live in an urban area where things are more expensive, indirectly, almost half your paycheck ends up spent by the govt.

More degrees inflating the job market, isn't going to increase productivity or magically make more jobs. And since there's already an oversupply of candidates, even more candidates won't make it much better.

If you want to see what more degrees does to a country, take a quick look at China. There, the glut of degree holding candidates is so great, that migratory workers get paid more than college graduates!

Re: US Household Debt Surpasses 2008 High

#410

Post by eli_gottlieb »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #349
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Obviously nobody has a crystal ball and you can never tell when huge, industry-wrecking changes are coming, but it was well understood that majoring in Underwater Basket Weaving was not a great idea from a financial point of view. Have we forgotten this lesson? The most common undergraduate major is Business. The "liberal arts and humanities" make up about, what was it, 12% of all bachelor's degrees?

In my experience, a business major is the new communications or psych major. Basically, a last resort for those who can't do anything else.

In terms of content, sure, but that's something we know after graduating. You try telling the kids going in that the major marked "business" is a money-loser.
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