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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#401

Post by tallanvor »

NDizzle wrote: post #238
snowwrestler wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Front load is better in every other way: easier on your clothes, so they last longer. Uses less water and less soap. Can take bulky fragile items like a down comforter or a tent.

It's not better in every way. Mildew. Having to leave it open so that the seals air out. Gravity - undefeated champion. Replacement parts and repairs. Get ready to open up your wallet. Good luck working on anything yourself.

How is leaving the door open a big deal? I just leave it open and pretty much only close it if it's been open for more than 24 hours or I need to use the shower (it's a small bathroom). No mildew or strange smells. I think the problem is that people these days don't want to deal with even a minimal amount of maintenance.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#402

Post by tracker1 »

throwappliance wrote: post #337
nsxwolf wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate our front loader. All our towels are moldy. I can never get the smell out. The machine emits a vile rotten egg smell during the spin cycle. I hate all our appliances. Every last one of them. From the microwave that lasted a year to the freezer that leaks water and ruined my hardwood floors. They're all garbage. Horrible, horrible expensive garbage.

Front loaders are the worst. I got stuck with one in a rental . I've managed to make it acceptable by doing 3 things. First, I switched the hot and cold water inputs. My machine's idea of "warm" was actually more like "very very cold". Now, it gets enough heat. I also cranked up my water heater as high as it would go. These two changes effectively take care of all mildew issues. Don't listen to all of the horrible wa…

Thank you for the STPP/TSP tip... I'm really sensitive to purfumes/dyes, and although I can get the purfume/dye free detergent, fabric softener without it is harder to come by. Sometimes use "baby" fabric softener or detergent.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#403

Post by unscaled »

More than just lack of competition, cost-cutting measures or planned obsolescence - I think this also has to do with what marketing.

Consumers will buy devices that feel attractive. Shiny touch screens sell. Shiny plastic sells. Over-the-top features sell. Boring mechanical machines don't sell. Thick and sturdy looking metal doesn't sell.

Customers want the advanced features which make these once-simple devices complicated and more error-prone and they also want their devices to be more lightweight (hence more plastic and thinner metal) and be curvy, not boxlike (which is why we stopped having smooth surfaces).

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#404

Post by WalterBright »

dredmorbius wrote: post #278
WalterBright wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> corrode Corrosion is unlikely to cause any problem with the heat exchanger unless it is really severe, as there are no moving parts in it. > nothing stops a circa-1994 Windows NT machine from continuing to work My older machines of that era have all failed due (most likely) to failed capacitors. The disk drives fail most likely due to lubrication issues. The semiconductors fail because all semiconductors fail due t…

If you prefer O2 to CO, you'll care about corrosion.

Are you sure about that? I did some research on this on the internet, and the house air in the exchanger is at a higher pressure than the exhaust gas, and so house air goes into the exhaust if there's a crack, not the other way around.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#405

Post by tracker1 »

M_Grey wrote: post #111
psadauskas wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only explanation..."? What about "never attribute to malice..." and Occam's Razor. I think a more likely explanation is that in the majority of cases when shopping for an appliance and your choices are a $1500 one and a $2000 one, you buy the cheaper one. This forces manufacturers to compete on price, and to cut costs wherever possible to remain profitable. Additionally, I just spent 30 seconds googling and a wa…

Well that, and a home appliance doesn't cost 1/7th of your annual budget anymore. Some things were built to last because to justify the expense, they had to last. James May (unusually) made a very good point that the "good old days" is an illusion created by survivorship bias, nostalgia, and failure to understand economics. The survivorship bias especially should be obvious: Lots of cheap crap was made throughout the…

Well, there's buckling spring model-m style keyboards, or even other keyswitch keyboards vs typical gel membrane keyboards... but even then, the casing material and backplate on a newer unicomp doesn't match the older IBM keyboards... it's definitely cheaper plastic everywhere except the keys themselves. Unicomp are about the only kb mfg today whose keys don't show obvious wear within a year of purchase.

Even Lego is looking to cut mfg costs (or has, was an older article) by switching to cheaper plastic, and removing some of the supports.

What kind of world are we living in where we need cheaper plastic?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#406

Post by tallanvor »

j3097736 wrote: post #79
PuffinBlue wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I'm not drinking the Miele Kool-Aid any longer. Maybe in the past they were great (my MIL has a 20 years old washing machine that's going great) but not the new stuff. Both my washer and dryer failed within 2 months of each other after 6 years. The dryers main board failed and price to repair was nearly £350 just for the part. The washers pump and some kind of water sensor failed simultaneously, leading to…

How new? 14 yo Miele washer never had an issue. >no filter cleaning for first 5 years! That's pretty disgusting for something you use to eat.

Well, I haven't had to clean my filter in over 5 years, but I still pre-rinse (yes, I know you're not supposed to need to anymore, but I don't want to risk it), so I check the filter regularly, but it's clean.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#407

Post by WalterBright »

hive_mind wrote: post #310
WalterBright wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had many cars with electric windows. They all eventually failed, usually when it was raining, and the windows could not be raised. Fixing them would cost over $500. My truck now has hand cranked windows, and mechanical door locks. They're no trouble at all, and I'm happy with them.

I'm looking for a truck with hand cranked windows. What brand is this?

80's Bronco 2

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#408

Post by phillc73 »

tracker1 wrote: post #395
phillc73 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a fine idea, until you drive to a different country and the data connection starts costing a fortune. I have a 2016 Hyundai Tucson. To obtain the traffic camera alerts, I need to tether my phone to the car. The car then uses my phone's data connection to obtain the latest traffic updates. However, whenever I drive out of my home country, which is quite often as I live in Central Europe, I turn off my phone's…

So, use an app with offline data and maps for the areas you are roaming into...

Perhaps I didn't make my point very clearly. Relying on a phone for in-car updates, such as traffic, is already an issue due to data roaming. Relying entirely on the phone will exacerbate this.

I appreciate there are offline mapping solutions, which I noted. However, there are probably also other edge cases I haven't specifically considered.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#409

Post by ptaipale »

gnopgnip wrote: post #377
tiatia wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"would gladly pay $3000 for a washer" Miele. https://9to5mac.com/2011/03/07/how-steve-jobs-picks-a-washer...

Just the control board on a miele will cost more than a regular washer. The higher end units are basically junk once the warranty runs out.

However, Miele has a reputation that they don't care about warranty; if it breaks, even after warranty, they may fix it for free unless it's clear you've done something wrong (like it breaks because you didn't do regular maintenance and clean the filters as you should).

Worked for me at least: when I had a problem, and I will buy the same brand again.

There were other similar brands but they've all gone bankrupt or been acquired (I had a UPO Pesukarhu washing machine which was maybe 15 years old when I bought it second-hand as a poor student, and it worked another 10 or so for me, and I only got rid of it because the 1970's color of the device didn't fit the interior in our new house, and later I regretted this. Now I've had the Miele for around 10 years.)

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#410

Post by TeMPOraL »

lowkeyokay wrote: post #398

I don't buy too much into the 'build to fail' argument. Rather, I think it's just a matter of consumers choosing features and price over longevity. You can't really prove longevity here and now. Of course you can build up a reputation but it takes time and might not pay off. Anecdote 1: Miele has a very good reputation. They also cost three times as much as the volume sellers and have a much lower market share. Sorry…

Blaming consumers for choosing price over longevity is like blaming water for flowing downhill. Both phenomena are perfectly predictable, so there's really no one with agency to blame there - just like a bunch of water molecules can't reverse the flow of a river, a bunch of consumers won't change this dynamic. Instead, one should focus on those who willingly profit off such phenomenas.

Now, you could argue that with sufficiently intense competition, companies will keep outdoing one another in selling cheapest crap. That indeed is a predictable and well-known failure mode of the market economy. The question is, whether appliance market suffers from too intense competition, or if there is a place for a lifetime-appliance supplier there.

If there isn't, then IMO a good solution would be extended mandatory warranty periods (25+ years) and/or requirement to use user-servicable components and release full schematics when company goes out of business or cancels a product line.

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