Time to Take a Stand • Hacker News Board

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#401

Post by refurb » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:02 PM UTC

pcwalton wrote: post #303

refurb wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You completely failed to address the OP's comment about the largest Muslim countries in the world (Indonesian and Pakistan) not being a part of the ban. If Trump was targeting Muslims, wouldn't he have started there?

> If Trump was targeting Muslims, wouldn't he have started there? He campaigned on a Muslim ban. Why try to randomly guess at his intentions, when he stated them over and over again, clear as day?

Let's focus here. The claim is this is a ban on Muslim's, yet the vast majority of Muslims in the world are unaffected.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#402

Post by cryoshon » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:02 PM UTC

padseeker wrote: post #113

_m8fo wrote: post #7

Why is that all of these posts saying to "take a stand" fail to explain the political process? I'll just quote myself here. If you want to help stop trump the most effective ways are to: 1. Call - Local congresspeople (http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/) - Senators (https://www.senate.gov/senators/contact/) - Local officials (https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials) 2. Participate - Get involved in local electi…

While I appreciate the sentiment for a call to action, it seems pretty clear that the people who are pushing this agenda don't care about what other people think. The people who are pushing this agenda lost the popular vote but that has not stopped them. Many of these reps supporting these actions are in districts that are gerrymandered to insulate themselves from anyone that disagrees with them on this kind of actio…

>the people who are pushing this agenda don't care about what other people think

they only care about their agenda. to make them care about what people think, disrupt their agenda.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#403

Post by severine » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:03 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #29

_m8fo wrote: post #7

Why is that all of these posts saying to "take a stand" fail to explain the political process? I'll just quote myself here. If you want to help stop trump the most effective ways are to: 1. Call - Local congresspeople (http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/) - Senators (https://www.senate.gov/senators/contact/) - Local officials (https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials) 2. Participate - Get involved in local electi…

Because people are already deluged with reminders on how to participate in the political process, and also because it's apparent that the political process is in fact badly broken and corrupted, and is not so inherently self-correcting that it inhibits bad actors. Allow me to suggest that you read and internalize this essay, because it is one of the few accurate summaries of out political reality that I've encountere…

Have you read this? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#404

Post by potatosoup » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:03 PM UTC

fowlerpower wrote: post #84

This is absolutely nuts. Green card holders (legal permanent residents of the United States) are being turned back from the US as soon as they get to the airport. They are being forced to file waivers which can be denied. How can legal permanent residents be denied entry? I mean this has to be breaking So many laws, how can this be ok?

Former green card holder here. A green card (or a visa) gives you a privilege to entry, not a right.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#405

Post by emehrkay » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:03 PM UTC

nathanasmith wrote: post #372

emehrkay wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the only thing that he campaigned on was hurting black/brown people and repealing the ACA. Everything else, every other policy topic was met with "I have the best people" or "I will have the best advisors." He constantly, falsely, repeated how bad black people have it in inner cities. How we can't go anywhere without the fear of being shot and killed by other black people. He touted the need for a nation-…

Fuck you too, buddy.

So I wouldn't be too far off saying that this part of what I wrote describes you:

> However, there are a lot of people who witnessed what he was doing and thought "it won't hurt me though" and were absolutely okay with him and his hateful approach to "making America great"

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#406

Post by jdoliner » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:03 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #301

SamReidHughes wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in Syria and thus can only repeat what other people say, but I've heard that ISIS is committing genocide against Christians, Yazidis, and Shiites. The source of this information is John Kerry.

Exactly. Doesn't it make sense to prioritize those people who are under the most persecution in those countries?

.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#407

Post by bassman9000 » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:03 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #356

bassman9000 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you had read the text, which you clearly haven't, you'll see that there have been issues with the visa process, and the new administration wants to review it. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/refugee-musli... Go read it, now.

Reviewing the visa process is fine However the lack of concern with Saudi Arabian citizens just shows how this is nothing but smoke and mirrors

Agreed. Given their history, and the involvement of officials of Saudi Gov in 9/11, they should also be included. Obvious reason I can think for not doing it are

- business ties : weak reason - given that, as little as we'd like the country, it's a stable one, and this could destabilize it, and the entire region, even more : weak reason too - US currently engaged in a war with Yemen with Saudi allies : strong reason. You need to undo this first

> shows how this is nothing but smoke and mirrors

False. It's incomplete. But poorly vetted immigration has been a gold mine for terrorism, and general destabilization. Look at Europe.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#408

Post by grzm » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:03 PM UTC

jonstewart wrote: post #370

467568985476 wrote: post #176

Sama, I appreciate your taking a stand on this, but how do you reconcile YCombinator's ties with Peter Thiel? Actions speak loud than words, and so far we've only seen words from you guys. Be the change you want to see in the world.

Indeed, a lot of words from pg and sama, and no observable actions.

If this is a high priority for you, have you personally dissociated yourself from people who hold views similar to Thiel's? Friends? Family? Coworkers? Employees? Employers? Business partners? Customers?

Sam Altman and Paul Graham have spoken out. Sam has also posted specifically about Thiel (http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election). They've donated to campaigns. They've likely done other things as well. If this one issue is this important to you, indeed, actions do speak louder than words, and I'd expect you to take similar actions in your own lives.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#409

Post by dandersh » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:03 PM UTC

djrogers wrote: post #8

> In doing so, we should not demonize Trump voters—most of them voted for him for reasons other than the promise of a Muslim ban. We need their eventual support in resisting actions like these, and we will not get it if we further isolate them. This is very important people - calling everyone who voted for Trump a racist homophobe, a moron, and not deserving of the franchise is not going to help anything. I didn't vo…

I'm sorry but they've pushed themselves away by their own actions. At some point a stand has to be taken and a demand for accountability has to be made.

At this point I'm not willing to wait to see how far this goes before they come to their senses.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#410

Post by makomk » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:03 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #288

refurb wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You completely failed to address the OP's comment about the largest Muslim countries in the world (Indonesian and Pakistan) not being a part of the ban. If Trump was targeting Muslims, wouldn't he have started there?

Perhaps because he has business interests there? Pakistan is particularly interesting because the San Bernadino shooters were from there. Saudi Arabia is also not on the list, despite being the home of Wahabist terrorism. I'm totally against the ban, but these inconsistencies are revealing. http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2017/01/26/countr...

The inconsistent treatment of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia is bipartisan and predates Trump's presidency by a long time. Remember how a number of the 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and their role was basically ignored? How the Saudis donated large sums to the Clinton Foundation? How we've provided large sums of military aid to Pakistan since 2001?