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U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

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Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#401
post #346
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, in order to finance the construction of fancy student dorms, many universities require unmarried undergraduates to live in a dorm. Speaking as a commuter in my student years, this boggles my mind. Of course, any concerns about cost are dismissed by the big handwave of 'well, financial aid is available...'

I agree with you, but I also think living on campus has at least one big advantage - promotes exchange of ideas and discussion with fellow students. Think about it as Aristotle's Lyceum/Gardens ;-)

That's great for people who have the means to, but is financially devastating for people who don't.

It would be one thing to stomach if the dorms looked, and were priced to be more like army barracks, then three-star hotels.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#402
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we bulldoze away houses, we throw away food. meanwhile, people are homeless and hungry. Clearly we already live in a society of overproduction. The difference is that the owners of the capital aren't willing to lose on their investments, and it's cheaper to bulldoze and throw away than to give it away or provide work maintaining the communities that these properties exist in/on.

> we bulldoze away houses etc People can do whatever they want to their property, no? Do you personally allow homeless people into your house? Problems you mentioned are real and tough, but the objections are very simplistic. Its very easy to demand others to do something, and distance yourself away.

appealing to individualism won't solve systemic problems. I don't have to house syrian refugee immigrants in my home personally to realize that europe has an ethical problem by refusing them and treating them the way they have been.

There is a long and historical precedent for demanding that people with excess amounts of capital owe a greater portion than those who own relatively little. There are material differences between the capitalists and all the rest of us, and those allow us to demand specific concessions from them.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why are interest free student loans never floated as an option?" Imagine what would happen if the US government made student loans interest free. Who would gain, and who would lose? (1) Students could afford to take out larger loans (as the repayments would be more affordable with 0% interest vs. 4.66% interest) (2) As a result of (1) colleges could charge higher tuition fees, without reducing the number of students…

You're right on the money. In fact, I'd argue that almost no one is smart enough (or wise enough) to only borrow what they really need. I went to college when I was 30. I thought I was smart. I knew that new graduates typically make, maybe, $40K. Yet, I signed up for the full boat...taking every last cent they'd loan me. Consequently, my wife and I are now $250K in debt--and have just bachelor's degrees (plus incompl…

250k? you got scammed bro

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really hard to work through the framing you've created here, where it's supposed that going to college is a requirement to find a good job, the rich are "screwed" by college debt, and the poor are... what? Screwed from multiple directions simultaneously? Further: if college is a necessity for a good job, and that's why students are going to college, and they're leaving college with a mountain of debt and no mean…

Disclaimer : I am a self educated programmer with $0 in debt. You say this with 20/20 hindsight and a unique perspective on supply and demand. You say this with what sounds anger and resentment towards successful people. I hope you view success and upperclass as a goal, or areat least a believer in independence and hardwork The mass majority of americans are sheep that are expecting the gov and society to guide them…

I'm a self-educated (1 semester at UIC and nothing else) programmer with $0 in debt. I just sold a company a few years back. I do not have "anger and resentment towards successful people".

I do not think we should spend large amounts of money to help refinance the debts of some of the best-off people in our society. I think that's a bad use of funds.

I also do not believe that college selects for "ambition". The overwhelming majority of middle class high school students go on to college. They're not all ambitious. They're just lucky.

Everything else I have to say about this comment, I already said in the preceding comment.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#405
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how it works. The universities have a software system [1] that employers can (and do) check to verify the degree. All they have to do is return "Not a Valid Degree-Holder", just like criminal background checks will return nothing for convictions that have since been pardoned. [1] https://www.auradata.com/Default.aspx

You get a printed degree and documentation of attending university when you graduate. All you would have to do is present those and you're as good as having a 'valid degree'. I don't think you understand how easy it would be to bypass this system, since the actual degree isn't the value, its the knowledge and experience that you gain on the campus. This is akin to repossessing the keys to a car instead of the vehicle…

that would be abused by folks who paid $200 to a diploma mill.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#406
post #25

We don't need student debt reform (and I say that as someone who has a lot of student debt). Student loan debt is a middle/upper middle class problem. 2/3 of millennials don't have a college degree, disproportionately in the lower and lower middle class. The majority have no student debt. Public money spent on college or debt reform would be a regressive benefit to those who are already better off than the median per…

It would be better to spend that money figuring out how to improve the plight of working class people for whom college isn't in the cards.

We need a great deal more genuinely affordable housing in this country. That would be an excellent start.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#407
post #33

I'm curious why we treat student loan debt as being special. We don't make a huge deal out of people taking on other debt and then being unable to pay for it. I think probably if anything, what we should have are better controls for what types of degrees you are allowed to take a loan out for. If your degree of choice is unlikely to yield the kind of return that will pay for it, then you should be required to save up…

> I'm curious why we treat student loan debt as being special. Because you can no longer declare bankruptcy to erase student debt. > If your degree of choice is unlikely to yield the kind of return that will pay for it, then you should be required to save up for it, rather than getting a loan, just like there are qualifications for other loans, like auto or mortgages which look at both the value of the asset vs its s…

prices would lower so it's not only the the rich.

Right now it benefits the rich a great deal since they can afford unpaid internships or low paying entry jobs

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really hard to work through the framing you've created here, where it's supposed that going to college is a requirement to find a good job, the rich are "screwed" by college debt, and the poor are... what? Screwed from multiple directions simultaneously? Further: if college is a necessity for a good job, and that's why students are going to college, and they're leaving college with a mountain of debt and no mean…

Disclaimer : I am a self educated programmer with $0 in debt. You say this with 20/20 hindsight and a unique perspective on supply and demand. You say this with what sounds anger and resentment towards successful people. I hope you view success and upperclass as a goal, or areat least a believer in independence and hardwork The mass majority of americans are sheep that are expecting the gov and society to guide them…

the economy only selects the best and the rest are left to compete in the same income bracket as the lazy, stupid, young, immigrant, unskilled etc.

As a homeless person with more than 6 years of college who was one of the top three students of my graduating high school class, I think you are ...ill informed, to put it very mildly.

I turned down a National Merit Scholarship and dropped out of school at age 20 with no student loans. I have one student loan that will be paid off about next July that is for a Certificate in GIS that is the equivalent of Master's level work. I have also had a college class on homelessness and public policy and I run (at least) a couple of websites aimed at addressing problems of the most desperately poor in the U.S.

In the vast majority of cases, poor people are not lazy, stupid or unskilled. In the vast majority of cases they are one of the following:

Female -- Poverty is a gendered issue and there are many factors that make it a gendered issue, more than I care to go into today as I am trying hard to resolve my own serious financial problems by doing as much paid work as I can here lately.

Chronically ill (or maimed for life) through no fault of their own -- One of the side effects of all of our modern medications and what not is that we can often "cure" things like cancer, but we don't really know how to get people well. We keep them alive, but often in a state where they are limping along and not able to work full time while saddled with high medical bills. (I have heard that more than half of all bankruptcies in the U.S. involve high medical bills, even when the person has good medical insurance -- I know this from someone very informed on the subject.)

Mentally ill -- and there is increasing evidence that mental illness and associated problems, such as alcoholism or addiction, have biological roots. So it may be called "mental illness," but it really is still a form of physical illness, one that even modern medicine does an incredibly poor job of addressing. We still don't have this one figured out all that well as a society.

Unable to find affordable housing -- There is a dearth of affordable housing in the US. This is a problem that goes back many decades and is only getting worse with time. I don't have time to find stats right now, by the shortage is really extreme and the result is, in part, increasing levels of homelessness nationwide.

Bailing out people who borrowed too much money for college falls far short of my priority list for trying to fix the problems in the U.S. Fixing those other problems would help all people, regardless of their educational achievement, income level or other details.

It would even help the fools who borrowed far too much for college. I dropped out specifically because I knew two people with a completed bachelor's degree and some form of college beyond that who were both delivering newspapers. One was living with his mother in his 30s. The other was mooching off his fool of a wife who eventually got wise and divorced his sorry ass.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer : I am a self educated programmer with $0 in debt. You say this with 20/20 hindsight and a unique perspective on supply and demand. You say this with what sounds anger and resentment towards successful people. I hope you view success and upperclass as a goal, or areat least a believer in independence and hardwork The mass majority of americans are sheep that are expecting the gov and society to guide them…

I'm a self-educated (1 semester at UIC and nothing else) programmer with $0 in debt. I just sold a company a few years back. I do not have "anger and resentment towards successful people". I do not think we should spend large amounts of money to help refinance the debts of some of the best-off people in our society. I think that's a bad use of funds. I also do not believe that college selects for "ambition". The over…

Its clear you wish to end this discussion so I will give you the final word after this.

Luck only goes so far. You need grades or sports to get in cheaply. The inflation of college prices isnt related to only the "1%" going to college. Nearly everyone goes [0], 68% in 2014. And if you dont, you either couldnt get in or smarter than the system could handle. To graduate you need to study, pass exams, write essays. College is not a free lunch only for the upper class. Its a bet the the american government guarentees because they believe a well educated workforce is a better workforce.

[0] http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cpa.asp

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#410
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So send them to college elsewhere? in Canada? Europe?

Many of them can do as I did and go straight from high school to the work force. Others can go into apprenticeships in the skilled trades. Still more to community and vocational colleges to learn business management or accounting. The fastest growing profession for 4-year college graduates is "HR professional". Come on. You don't need a college degree to be an HR rep, or to be a sales account manager, or to work in a…

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