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Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

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Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#401

Post by michaelbuddy »

imgabe wrote: post #365
morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

> Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? Yes, this is called living in a society.

Society can only work when there is trust and self reliance. Usurping from those who are responsible with their money rips this fabric. If you assume we all should be ok with this because 'society' then why not make it a voluntary bailout and see how far it goes. This would be a bailout at gunpoint because that's how laws and taxes boil down.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#402

Post by codyb »

wang_li wrote: post #341
viraptor wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the conclusion, but: > other people's bad financial decisions? This is different than someone taking a bad loan on their own. This is the case of your parents and grandparents, your government, the schools, the newspapers, etc. all effectively telling you that it's a good idea to invest in education. So good that in a country that loves its liberties and independence so much people will fight against pub…

> This is the case of your parents and grandparents, your government, the schools, the newspapers, etc. all effectively telling you that it's a good idea to invest in education. I'm pretty sure that absolutely no one anywhere tells their kid, go to Columbia University, live full time in Manhattan, take an extra three years to finish your bachelors, study pottery making, live entirely off of student loans. Aim for at…

Doesn't seem like it but when you're paying rent, electric, gas, loans, phone, food, and transportation it adds up pretty quickly especially when you're working below median wages for families/single persons in America, or worse, unemployed.

There's a reason more people are living at home, struggling with their debts, and the middle class is declining and it's not because their bills are so easily surmounted.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#403

Post by michaelbuddy »

stevenkovar wrote: post #254
morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

I think it's fine to subsidize education through government programs. Instead, remove the standard of requiring certain levels of education. Perhaps require industry-specific credentials that can be earned through exam or internship for most jobs. College should be about personal exploration over career preparation—at least in the bachelors level. Students can complete credentials as part of their final semester Seni…

Apprenticeships.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#404

Post by ctvo »

You walked uphill through snow to get to your current position, with grit and determination and those freeloaders, who majored in THEATER or LITERATURE, spending their college days socializing while you studied for difficult engineering exams shouldn't be allowed to escape without paying for their crime of living in a country with a broken higher education system.

Eerily similar narrative to any other welfare debate in the US.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#405

Post by mgkimsal »

morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

"for other people's bad financial decisions"

Why is making loans to people that have, statistically, a very low chance of paying off somehow not also a "bad financial decision"? We pay for "bad financial decisions" regardless of who makes them - debt forgiveness for individuals or bank bailouts when they get in over their heads.

Banks only lend for education because it's not dischargeable - there's no penalty for the bank making a 'bad decision' because they'll get their money one way or another.

Yes, make all student debt able to be discharged in bankruptcy, and we'll see a different dynamic play out. However... there are more predatory lenders out there that specifically target the newly bankrupt so... it may not 'cure' all issues, just shift some of the burden around.

EDIT: had meant to add that we already pay for people's bad health decisions via insurance pools, and we already pay for people's bad life decisions via prisons.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#406

Post by mgkimsal »

DashRattlesnake wrote: post #271
mattmanser wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7 years for a bad decision made when you were 18? That seems incredibly harsh. Then again, you Americans really don't believe in rehabilitation do you.

Do other countries allow people to declare bankruptcy and discharge their debt without consequences? The 7 year black mark is no one wanting to loan you money because you've shown you won't pay it back, and it's 7 years because the government says it can't be longer. It's not anything truly harsh like prison sentence or anything.

And yet, there's a growing industry of people who explicitly target the newly bankrupt (with high interest loans).

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#407

Post by michaelbuddy »

grej wrote: post #388

Am I the only one that thinks this is actually fairly simple? Change the rules to allow the loans to be discharged by standard bankruptcy and limit the percentage of federal backing. All of the sudden the banks will actually care about doing due diligence and the likelihood of being paid back, instead of throwing money at everyone knowing they have a federal taxpayer backstop. You want a loan for $60k to major in ele…

Yup and another benefit is it will not set as many of our youth into debt just when they are enjoying freedom for the first time in their life.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#408

Post by [deleted] »

morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

[deleted]

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#409

Post by dredmorbius »

dragonwriter wrote: post #273
dredmorbius wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That description bears similarities to how slavery was constrained in the US: The international slave trade was abolished in 1800, but existing slaves, and their children , could still be kept, bought, and sold, until 1863.

> The international slave trade was abolished in 1800, but existing slaves, and their children, could still be kept, bought, and sold, until 1863. 1865 (with the ratification of the 13th Amendment), actually.

Well, if you want to go there, technically slavery is still legal, but only as a punishment for a crime:

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#410

Post by ocschwar »

morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

"Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions?"

Bad financial decisions that they made at age 18 with heavy pressure from everyone around them?

I got bigger fish to fry.

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