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Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

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Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#401

Post by Your_Creator »

while being upfront about employment terms is always a good thing,

this sort of arrangement is unilateral in the company's favor. you sit there, churning out codes and solutions and they get to keep it after you leave.

what do you get other than a pat on your back and some space filler on your resume?

shares of the company?

free software updates for life?

a chance to preview new hardware before anyone else?

how about free hardware? or at least the chance to buy it at cost?

what about using whatever you help create, somewhere else?

there are non-tech businesses that work this way and the morale is typically through the floor. you see this at brick and mortar businesses when there's no room for advancement within the company, because the company isn't expanding geographically they have one location and they like it that way.

most of those companies, love these loopholes they can take advantage of, like less than full time hours so you don't get healthcare benefits and because the turnover rate is so high, no one ever really gets a raise. oh, they have protocols on the books, but no one makes it that long.

it's like the rat box experiment -

one box of rats has food and a way out - they spread out and flourish

one box has no food, but a way out - they all leave

one box has food and no way out - when the food runs out, so do they

one box has no food and no way out - you end up with one really fat cannibal rat

just because we humans like to pretend we are civilized, we are not immune to succumbing to our animal instincts.

interestingly enough, this behavior can also be observed in neighborhoods in NYC where there are many NYCHA buildings grouped together like Queensbridge and Morrisania Houses. from their perspective there's no future, no food, no money, no hope - no discernible way out.

so what do they do? they turn on each other.

what do humans do where there is a massive blackout and we are suddenly back in the stone age? we behave like the animals we are. we've seen it time and time again.

I recommend becoming well versed in IP law if this is a 'lifestyle choice' anyone wants to make. at least then, you can protect your own right to profit off of anything you create in these set ups.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#402

Post by mcguire »

free2rhyme214 wrote: post #201
chrisyeh wrote: post #125

For the record, I'm one of the co-authors of "The Alliance," which Dan Lyons refers to in his op ed. Dan refers to our book and quotes a single sentence fragment: "Your company is not your family." Everything else he writes in that section of the piece has nothing to do with the content of the book. 1) "You’re serving a “tour of duty” that might last a year or two" Actually, the book makes it clear that the duration…

Chris you're right Dan misconstrues your ideas and that's disappointing. The real issue with his article is that he was lying to himself before he even joined Hubspot. I'm really surprised how shocked people are when they join startups and aren't happy. What did you expect? Hubspot is not Salesforce. Uber is not Google. DoorDash is not Groupon. The maturity of companies at different stages varies significantly. I rea…

Hubspot is not a startup. Uber is not a technology company. I have no idea what DoorDash is, but Groupon was silly.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#403

Post by supercanuck »

dvanduzer wrote: post #144
justin_vanw wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too young? I wish! I went through your comments and figured out who you are in real life, and I found that I basically agree with most of the things you say, so I won't give you a hard time. I think Kirkland Signature makes good stuff too! Edit: That sounded really stalker-ish, I did it to see if you are actually even older than I am.

I'm approaching 35 years old, and HubSpot is a publicly traded company, ergo, a grown-ass company. If they need to cut labor costs, they do a layoff. When I was 17 years old, I got fired without any warning from a mom-and-pop computer repair shop ($10 an hour, I think?) because I "talked too much" at the bench. Coincidentally, they had just hired a 15 year old to do the same job. I had also recently asked how i might…

If they do layoffs, they must publically announce them.

Replacing 36 yr old women with 23 year old men requires no such disclosure

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#404

Post by mcguire »

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #145
chrisyeh wrote: post #125

For the record, I'm one of the co-authors of "The Alliance," which Dan Lyons refers to in his op ed. Dan refers to our book and quotes a single sentence fragment: "Your company is not your family." Everything else he writes in that section of the piece has nothing to do with the content of the book. 1) "You’re serving a “tour of duty” that might last a year or two" Actually, the book makes it clear that the duration…

managers should be explicit about how an employee's job assignment is going to help develop his or her career That's interesting. I've had a number of managers in my career and never, not even once, has one of them espoused anything resembling such a position. It's always what can the employee do for the company, not what's mutually beneficial.

The fluidity of employment argues strongly against it.

An employer doesn't train people, they hire those with the skill. If an employee is no longer valuable, the employee moves on. The employer has no particular interest in or control over the employee's career before or after their 'assignment'.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#405

Post by mcguire »

alsetmusic wrote: post #189
nostrademons wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt like most of my managers at Google tried pretty hard at this. We certainly did have conversations about what I wanted long-term within my career and how that might best be accomplished within the organization. Ultimately, I ended up deciding that what I wanted couldn't be achieved inside Google, but they certainly made the effort.

I spent nearly a decade moving up within another hugely successful tech company and every manager I ever had took time with me once or twice a year to discuss my goals and to outline steps I could take to reach them. Perhaps this is a cultural trait of successful companies (those dominant within their field) that helps them reach such heights.

"I spent nearly a decade moving up within..."

That's a characteristic of lifetime employment, not the kind of jobs under discussion here.

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#406

Post by rpgmaker »

sah2ed wrote: post #396
rpgmaker wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was another, longer excerpt featured on HN recently does anyone have the link? I think it was also on the NYT. Or maybe it was a profile about HubSpot written by another person. Not sure anymore.

My Year in Startup Hell [1] [1] http://fortune.com/disrupted-excerpt-hubspot-startup-dan-lyo... [2] HN discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11369632

Thanks!

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#407

Post by dikdik »

morgante wrote: post #336
martin1975 wrote: post #259

Programmers are still operating under the delusion that they are so much better (or worse) than the guy working next to them. It is this kind of egotistical thinking that probably gets in the way of them unionizing. You want to give a large caliber a-hole like Bezos the finger while working in his own company? It takes balls to do that - stage a walk out and strike. It takes camaraderie, intimacy and loyalty to a cau…

There's abundant evidence that there are vast differences in the productivity of different programmers in the same company. Denying that doesn't make it untrue. The best way to punish the Bezos of the world is not to work for them. Which it seems like more and more people are—most of my friends wouldn't even consider a job at Amazon.

Well the most productive programmers aren't paid as much as they are worth now. Do you think unionizing will further reduce their pay? I have a feeling not...

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#408

Post by dikdik »

josh_carterPDX wrote: post #19
hartator wrote: post #4

> She was 35, had been with the company for four years, and was told without explanation by her 28-year-old manager that she had two weeks to get out. I think that's a bit funny that the author implies you can't be good as a manager at 28. Specially when you are writing an article about bias.

Having worked at a few startups I can relate to what the writer is saying (although I do agree the article is a bit slanted). It happens a lot in the tech world under the guise of "thinking differently" about management. I agree that age shouldn't matter, until you're 10-15 years older than your Manager who is completely out of their element, has no clue what they're doing, and you spend every day wondering how the f…

I've felt the same only I was the one 5-10 years younger than my manager. I think your age bias in my case would be he "is too young to understand his manager's genius."

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#409

Post by greenyoda »

wcummings wrote: post #270
greenyoda wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would even attend a party that their boss threw for them after firing them?

No one, because that doesn't happen.

From the first paragraph of the article:

"She was 35, had been with the company for four years, and was told without explanation by her 28-year-old manager that she had two weeks to get out. On her last day, that manager organized a farewell party for her."

Re: Congratulations You’ve Been Fired

#410

Post by sgt101 »

chrisyeh wrote: post #394
sgt101 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good and fair that you have been able to lay out your real position in this discussion to people who haven't read your full text. Your comments certainly deliver a much more sensible and reasonable perspective than the article would indicate. I especially agree with 3, the corner cases of behaviour on both sides (labour & capital) can be mitigated and controlled with policy and law. Capitalism and socialism both…

While I have sworn a vow not to write specifically about the US election, it is clear that one of the things buoying certain insurgent candidates is the feeling of less-educated working class white Americans that their position in society has been declining. The thing is, they are right; their relatively unskilled labor is no longer valuable to the system (especially when equivalent labor is available at a fraction o…

I think you are right, but for the sake of social stability some sort of more equitable bargain must be struck. The alternative model is visible in Mexico City and San Palo; office commutes by chopper or kidnap and ransom risk every day !
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