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My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

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Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#401

Post by quaunaut »

wdmeldon wrote: post #299
quaunaut wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America at least, the median salary for a Programmer is more than enough that with properly managed funds, you can have a spouse who doesn't work and still live quite well. Remember- the median income here is $52k. I'm in Boise, ID, one of the cheapest cost of living areas in America, and our junior developers start above that.

I live in a place with a slightly higher COL and make about that with no benefits. I also have about 4 years experience. Some people just make shitty career choices or don't get lucky/unlucky.

Then keep looking? The market favors the developer right now.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#402

Post by [deleted] »

wdmeldon wrote: post #299
quaunaut wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America at least, the median salary for a Programmer is more than enough that with properly managed funds, you can have a spouse who doesn't work and still live quite well. Remember- the median income here is $52k. I'm in Boise, ID, one of the cheapest cost of living areas in America, and our junior developers start above that.

I live in a place with a slightly higher COL and make about that with no benefits. I also have about 4 years experience. Some people just make shitty career choices or don't get lucky/unlucky.

[deleted]

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#403

Post by quaunaut »

cushychicken wrote: post #279
quaunaut wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America at least, the median salary for a Programmer is more than enough that with properly managed funds, you can have a spouse who doesn't work and still live quite well. Remember- the median income here is $52k. I'm in Boise, ID, one of the cheapest cost of living areas in America, and our junior developers start above that.

My first job was working for Micron in Boise, ID, and I lived like royalty on their college-hire engineer salary. Loved the town, wasn't into the work. I'd move back to Boise in a heartbeat.

It's really great, and I've found a wonderful job here with the best coworkers I've ever had. Also get to experiment with cool technologies quite often.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#404

Post by jacobush »

Tloewald wrote: post #330
exelius wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just have to say this: So typically american. The attitude presented in the article is indeed typically American -- but not for the reason I think you intended. The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny. Fuck, it's right there in the first sentence of the first document declaring this country's independence. Americans are often seen as greedy re…

My big problem with what the writer says is that he assumes power comes from position. Most power, and the most useful power, is soft power. In those cases he cites, such as the startup store, where he thinks he could have made a difference as a leader - sorry, but he could have made a difference as a peon if he built credibility and stuck to his guns. Clearly he didn't have that kind of personality, or has too narro…

I can't help but think of Sisyphus, or how a drop of water makes a mark on a stone. Yes, he could. But it sounds like a 100 times more work.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#405

Post by Chris2048 »

freyr wrote: post #384
Chris2048 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He could of gone into management/leadership, and failed miserably. The cherry-picked success stories don't mean success is more likely. If he had gone into leadership, he might now be looking at examples such a notch, who got rich from dev work without becoming a 'manager' - at the same time indie dev startups are very competitive. I guess you have to balance risk and reward. If you focus on the best examples of an o…

> If he had gone into leadership, he might now be looking at examples such a notch, who got rich from dev work without becoming a 'manager' A well-paid manager saying, "But I could have made more developing Minecraft!" might as well complain, "But I could have made more if I won the lottery!" If high compensation is the goal, being a manager is simply a much more straightforward and reliable path than being a program…

The highest paid jobs, without disproportionate barriers/gatekeepers/high-bars are jobs that become desired; demand = X, but where supply is low; supply Which means job that used to be either low-demand, low-paid, or (usually) both. Otherwise demand has to keep rising, because without barriers, an increase in pay will cause a delayed increase in supply (as people are attracted to the field) which then meets the demand, or at least evens it out, reducing pay in turn, unless demand keeps increasing.

My own 2$ ameteur micro-economic theory there :-)

Anyway, the point is this; Is hard to predict which jobs will pay well when you start on that path. well paid jobs now might be lower paid by the time you and every other chaser-of-the-dollar goes into the same field, increasing supply, pushing down pay. The opposite can happen too.

Builder/labourer might not be seen as too lucrative in the past, yet in some times it certainly has been. And I wonder how many BAs actually fail to get high paying jobs?...

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#406

Post by pjlegato »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #329
exelius wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just have to say this: So typically american. The attitude presented in the article is indeed typically American -- but not for the reason I think you intended. The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny. Fuck, it's right there in the first sentence of the first document declaring this country's independence. Americans are often seen as greedy re…

> Therefore, money is seen primarily as a means to self-determination. And even deeper down, it's a means of survival. The safety net here has pretty much disintegrated since it began to be dismantled in the '80s. A lot of people in the US haven't saved enough for retirement considering this new reality... they haven't even saved enough to get them through a few months of unemployment. There's a loss of hope in rural…

> The drug of choice there was/is alcohol. Here it seems to be prescription opiates (in addition to alcohol).

These situations are not even remotely comparable.

The fraction of Americans who abuse opiates is tiny compared to the percentage of Russians who abuse alcohol.

As a rough approximation, about 2.5 million Americans have an opiate abuse issue in 2016[1], out of a population of 319 million. This is about 0.8% of the population.

Statistics from the Soviet Union are hard to find due to the government's indifference to the problem, but even official news sources -- which routinely greatly underreported the true magnitude of social problems -- put alcohol abuse rates at 19% of the population.[2] Also note that the amount of drinking you have to do to be considered "abusing" alcohol is far, far greater in Russia than in the US.

[1] http://www.asam.org/docs/default-source/advocacy/opioid-addi... [2] http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/34/6/824

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#407

Post by notlisted »

kdamken wrote: post #311
ryandrake wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure it's fair to judge without knowing the whole story. Maybe he has other costly obligations that you don't know about. Maybe an expensive health condition. Stock market went down. Debts, whatever. Or, he just encountered a string of bad luck (left Apple in the late 90's--oops!). Without those facts, blanket statements like "how do you manage your money that poorly" are unfair.

True - it's impossible to know every detail of his situation. That's why I put the disclaimer about his health. Regardless of those things though, for most people making a decent salary, they can put themselves in a good position for most scenarios by: - Saving as much as they can of what they're earning. Ideally at least 50% - Avoiding debt - Investing their money in low cost index funds

I may sound like an old fart, I am one too, but you sound like a very young one. Peeked at your profile and I see I'm right. May you grow up without troublesome times in your life.

May I add to the list of 'excuses':

- Getting hit by a bursting tech-bubble (as I was, we're talking a significant hit in terms of employment as well as retirement accounts, stock market and having to drain existing reserves)

- Living in a region where rising rents exceed salary increases without changing jobs (I saw the light only 3 years ago when I left NYC for NJ after 20 years). Living in PA, I think you may lack some perspective on the latter.

- Having a child didn't just cost $$$ (as others have mentioned) but made me realize that traveling 50% of the time for 30% more money just wasn't worth it to me. It's something else entirely to be responsible just for yourself (I love peanut-butter sandwiches!) and the resulting 'pressure' one may feel to provide a stable, but not salary-maximized, situation for your family. Don't forget health insurance needs. It also makes you more risk-averse.

All of this hampers your career/salary. Sure, they're all personal choices, but not easy ones.

Glad I made mine though. Soon enough the kid will be gone forever.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#408

Post by JimboOmega »

cookiecaper wrote: post #354
KyleBrandt wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. If you get a lot of money it doesn't mean you have to go buy a bunch of crap you don't really want. Rather it can give you influence. You can invest in charities or companies you believe in to shape the future. For example http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/26/us/tangelo-park-orlando-fl...

The only amount of money people really need for autonomy is the amount of money it takes to supply their immediate needs and some reasonable wants; the amount of money necessary to provide for a normal middle-class lifestyle. I would ballpark this around $80k/yr. It's not enough to make big donations to candidates, companies, or charities, and it won't buy the most expensive stuff out there, but it's plenty to keep y…

Incidentally, isn't $80k around the point where happiness from income levels off?

The advantage of big money isn't just charities and companies - it's having your time back, since you're not tied to getting an income from it.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#409

Post by edwcar13 »

After reading this I get the understanding that in my life if I am to start a company and being a programmer that I will inevitably have to let go of being a programmer and focus on being solely a leader. This never is a thought that I never even fathomed.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#410

Post by karmelapple »

Bluestrike2 wrote: post #340
exelius wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just have to say this: So typically american. The attitude presented in the article is indeed typically American -- but not for the reason I think you intended. The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny. Fuck, it's right there in the first sentence of the first document declaring this country's independence. Americans are often seen as greedy re…

It's a very interesting dynamic. Humanistic psychology focuses extensively on ideas of locus of control (Rotter) and self-actualization (Maslow). The perspective has its shortcomings, but I think it manages to hit on a point that many of the others either miss or place little emphasis on. People in general tend to underestimate just how significant that can be. For example, I've always found the argument that certain…

Interesting point. The idea of a meritocracy is pretty ingrained into the tech world, and that means control over life is internal, not external.

But tech is not a meritocracy. [1] [2]

Accepting that you have less control over your life may change some of your outcomes, but I doubt it would completely crush one's spirit.

I've accepted that I'll never flap my arms unaided and fly like a bird. I'm not depressed because of that realization. It's a known limitation of my life, and I can live with it, and I won't spend my weekends practicing my flapping and running skills. It actually helps me focus on areas I can affect change... such as building a jetpack.

Knowing which things are outside of your control should help you realize what is and is not within your ability to change, and then you can figure out how to make the most success given which variables are mutable or immutable.

You mention research about one's perception can affect later economic success; I'd be very interested in a reference.

[1] http://istechameritocracy.com [2] http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2014/02/06/272...

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