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San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

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Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#401

Post by ssalazar »

chrischen wrote: post #290
humbleMouse wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you mentioned not being able to get a good meal after 9:30pm. That was the most frustrating thing about being in San Francisco for me. I hated that the whole bay seemed to shut down @10pm - almost as if everybody has to wake up the next morning to work another 12 hour day to pay the insane rent.....

Perhaps part of the reason is the massive wealth gap between the tech migrants (tech workers) and the local population. It causes a lot of friction between locals and the new migrants. The lower earners are being forced out of the city and they probably make a up a large chunk of the service workers. The public transit system shuts off by 12 AM - 1PM, and most service workers would likely have to live outside of the…

> Perhaps part of the reason is the massive wealth gap between the tech migrants (tech workers) and the local population. It causes a lot of friction between locals and the new migrants. The lower earners are being forced out of the city and they probably make a up a large chunk of the service workers.

The current disparity certainly causes plenty of concerning issues, though SF's early closing has been a thing since at least 2007 when I first lived there, at which point cost of living was somewhat reasonable.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#402

Post by octobyte »

Falcon9 wrote: post #275
rconti wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't argue against that being the best thing Vegas has going for it.

Cheap housing, cheap decent food options, access to all-you-can-eat-entertainment, relative proximity to SoCal/beach all factor in as well. But the Summer is miserable (IMO) and the people here just don't give a crap about life, so it can be pretty draining to live in Vegas as well.

What do you mean "Don't give a crap about life"?

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#403

Post by scurvy »

nunez wrote: post #228
timr wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth. This would have prevented exactly this problem where tech workers are forced to…

> I live in SF, but I wouldn't make the choice to move here today. It simply isn't worth Manhattan prices to live in a city full of tech bros where you can't get a good meal after 9:30. This one took me by surprise when I visited SF for the first time five years ago. I thought it would be booming with activity just like NYC, so I thought nothing of trying to find food when I arrived at ~11pm. NOTHING. Nothing was ope…

That's a major over exaggeration and you know it. Name any neighborhood in the city, and I'll give you at least one place open until midnight.

You probably couldn't see anything open from your hotel in Union Square or SOMA, but it's there. Just open foursquare or Yelp.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#404

Post by selimthegrim »

ghaff wrote: post #178
pklausler wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try North Carolina, which has regrettably chosen to become a former tech hub.

Not what I hear from various co-workers complaining about the prices of buying or renting condos in downtown Raleigh.

He is referring to the anti LBGT antidiscrimination law just passed.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#405

Post by vinay427 »

bogomipz wrote: post #373
vinay427 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major tax difference in the UK from my understanding is the 20% standard VAT, which is obviously much higher than any sales tax in the US.

Yes there's no VAT in the US but when you add up all the "soft taxes" - toll roads, hotel tax, unemployment tax(unique in that you pay tax on money have already paid tax on) not to mention the other quasi/hidden taxes and fees like the following: gas tax, cell phone tax, electricity and natural gas, cable tv and alcohol the lack of a VAT in the US doesn't account for much.

Please see the various links I found below, in case you're not aware of comparable taxes in the UK. In addition, my state doesn't have toll roads (only a few major bridges are tolled) or congestion charges like parts of London. Your point on unemployment tax is duly taken, however.

Gas tax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax#United_Kingdom

EDIT: To put that into perspective, the tax in the UK of "£2.19 per U.S. gallon" is far more than a gallon of gas costs most Americans right now. In addition, there's a 20% VAT on the gas price AND the duty, so Britons are being taxed at 20% on that duty.

VAT applies to hotels: "The exceptions are the UK and Slovakia where VAT stands at 20% for all goods and services including hotel accommodation" (https://www.instituteofhospitality.org/Publications/Insight_...)

Toll roads: https://www.gov.uk/uk-toll-roads

Electricity tax on certain usage levels: "The Climate Change Levy is a p/kWh tax on certain electricity use. Exempt supplies include domestic supplies and supplies using less than the de minimis threshold of 1,000 kWh / month" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_billing_in_the_UK)

TV licencing fee that I seem to always hear British taxpayers complaining about: "Since 1 April 2010 the annual licence fee has been £145.50 for colour and £49.00 for black and white." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_Un...)

Alcohol and tobacco taxes: https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-shopping/alcohol-tobacco

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#406

Post by awqrre »

whack wrote: post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

luckily, software doesn't need to be all in one area...

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#407

Post by ghaff »

selimthegrim wrote: post #404
ghaff wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not what I hear from various co-workers complaining about the prices of buying or renting condos in downtown Raleigh.

He is referring to the anti LBGT antidiscrimination law just passed.

Oh sure. Which I was certainly aware of. Unbelievable.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#408

Post by davidgay »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #323
mahyarm wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not move to oakland or similar? Rent is like half in the nice areas, and even less in the not so nice areas.

Life's too short to spend any more of it in Oakland than necessary.

Yes, keep up the propaganda! It keeps Rockridge nice and pleasant for the rest of us!

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#409

Post by nosuchthing »

derefr wrote: post #284
jimminy wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that everything closed so early blew me away, when I moved there. Compared to the middle of nowhere WV it made zero sense. Even the grocery stores closed by midnight in SF. In WV, you can find food at most places until 12-1am 7 days a week. And the major local grocery is a Walmart, which is open 24 hours. Last Easter I had no clue nothing would be open, and didn't prepare for that. So I just had some crap pi…

Everything closing at 9PM is pretty much par for the course here in Vancouver, another city with the skyrocketing cost-of-living thing going on. I wonder if there's a correlation. Maybe everyone is rich enough to pay delivery services or maids or something to get their shopping done while they're at work, so there's no demand for 24-hour businesses? Then again, another thing with Vancouver (that I think I've heard sa…

Vancouver anecdote; bars are not night life. I visited for two weeks and discovered a local music festival (music waste), befriended random folks at parks (parks were everywhere, and people actually used them!). East Van seemed to have a lively night life on par with SF/LA, people hosting live bands in their loft, avant-garde burlesque theater, house parties etc. It sounded like there was a lively festival scene in BC too, and not just electronic, stuff like the Peppermill Festival http://www.peppermillrecords.com/. Quantity of cultural hubs in Van might not be as expansive as other major cities, but the quality certainly sprouts up. That city seems more suited for people who enjoy nature though.

Really sad to hear that Vancouver and San Francisco are plagued by real estate siphoning out all the potential of what those cities could be. Feudalism seems to be a trend everywhere though.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-14/millennial...

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#410

Post by scurvy »

polytap wrote: post #126
lettergram wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say... I'm already nervous in my 3 story building when there is a earthquake. I'd be even more nervous around buildings, when I know the ground is basically sand.

Taller, flexible buildings are much better at distributing shock waves.

Right, but you can't build those everywhere. There are chunks of the city that are landfill (old ships, gravestones, etc) which are seismically unfit to hold a large building, even with pilings.

As a kid, my wife grew up always wanting to live in the Marina. Now, you couldn't pay her to spend a night there because of the landfill.

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