I think the minimum wage is a helpful tool or has been historically. But as others have said when you raise the minimum wage, prices increase, and by far the largest groups that consume the same goods/services are also relatively poor themselves (so essentially you increase pay but also costs to the poorest in society). More as a thought experiment than anything: What would happen if, instead of increasing the minimu…
Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown
41–50 of 105 posts
Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Make more than a million dollars a year? 95% marginal tax rate." Great. Then what? Everyone currently making over $1m a year will cut their salary to $1m. Then you gotta start taxing the upper middle class -- what rate do you want to tax people making over $500k? $250k? $100k? Those are the ones that will pay for this program. As much as you want to tax "the wealthy", there really aren't enough wealthy people to pay…
> Great. Then what? Everyone currently making over $1m a year will cut their salary to $1m. Do wealthy individuals in other countries with a heavier tax burden (Europe, Scandinavia to be specific) do this? Would be nice to see evidence of this behavior before outright dismissing raising taxes.
Here's the top couple using France: http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisconover/2012/07/23/flight-o...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/france-drops-75...
Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown
#43I think the minimum wage is a helpful tool or has been historically. But as others have said when you raise the minimum wage, prices increase, and by far the largest groups that consume the same goods/services are also relatively poor themselves (so essentially you increase pay but also costs to the poorest in society). More as a thought experiment than anything: What would happen if, instead of increasing the minimu…
Minimum wage hikes first eat into profits before increasing prices. It is primarily a transfer of wealth from the wealthiest to the poorest.
Minimum wage hikes do not always increase prices, either. Especially not meager increases.
Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Great. Then what? Everyone currently making over $1m a year will cut their salary to $1m. Do wealthy individuals in other countries with a heavier tax burden (Europe, Scandinavia to be specific) do this? Would be nice to see evidence of this behavior before outright dismissing raising taxes.
Yes. Google "millionaires leaving X" and see what the autosuggestions are for X and choose one. While some are US states - NY, Maryland, etc - most are countries. Here's the top couple using France: http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisconover/2012/07/23/flight-o... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/france-drops-75...
Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with this type of wealth redistribution is that the poor are often consumers of the same products and services served by min wage jobs. This is one of many reasons I support unconditional basic income. It allows labor to be accurately priced in the market, without raising cost to the poor.
> this type of wealth redistribution As opposed to the kind where the bosses pay absurdly low wages and distribute the profits to themselves? Update: grammar, typo
Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown
#46I think the minimum wage is a helpful tool or has been historically. But as others have said when you raise the minimum wage, prices increase, and by far the largest groups that consume the same goods/services are also relatively poor themselves (so essentially you increase pay but also costs to the poorest in society). More as a thought experiment than anything: What would happen if, instead of increasing the minimu…
I don't see any obvious reason why this should be the case or would be remotely beneficial - it's not as if Walmart or Amazon deserve a lower quality CEO than Goldman.
Further, this would create huge disincentives for companies to take on new lines of business which involve low skill labor and would create incentives for managers to eliminate low skill labor. I.e., Steve Jobs and other execs would have the personal incentive to NOT open up apple stores, even though opening up such stores would be beneficial for both shareholders and those who would otherwise be employed by such stores.
Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown
#47I don't believe that raising the minimum wage will trigger businesses to cut jobs significantly. They will probably pass the higher cost onto the consumer. Ultimately, it's a method of wealth redistribution, which is sorely needed in our economy.
Passing costs on the client isn't something you can just do. Many products and services have elastic demand. Fast food, for example, has been has found it very hard to raise away from their dollar menu pricing. Businesses don't have to cut jobs either. They just have to move them. Edit2: Costumers can also shift to lower cost alternatives. Online retailers have less overhead and lower labor costs. If you make Walmart…
Like it did in Australia?
Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
>15 dollars will put people in most of the country out of work. So be it. Can't find a job that offers a living wage? We provide a social safety net and increase taxes on the wealthy to pay for it. Make more than a million dollars a year? 95% marginal tax rate. Tax rates are the lowest they've been in the history of the US, and all we've seen is a disgusting level of income equality.
"Make more than a million dollars a year? 95% marginal tax rate." Great. Then what? Everyone currently making over $1m a year will cut their salary to $1m. Then you gotta start taxing the upper middle class -- what rate do you want to tax people making over $500k? $250k? $100k? Those are the ones that will pay for this program. As much as you want to tax "the wealthy", there really aren't enough wealthy people to pay…
The point isn't to make them pay for everything. The point of taxing them is to mute the inflationary effect of letting them keep their money.
The primary noticeable effect of taxing the wealthy on the rest of us would be to make property more affordable once again.
Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown
#49I don't believe that raising the minimum wage will trigger businesses to cut jobs significantly. They will probably pass the higher cost onto the consumer. Ultimately, it's a method of wealth redistribution, which is sorely needed in our economy.
Minimum wage has to do with marginal cost of producing an extra product. Marginal cost generally increases after a while. So producing that last additional unit usually costs more than the one before. When you increase cost in the form of the price of human capital, the marginal cost of producing a unit will increase and the intersection with the marginal revenue (price of the unit) will drop to a lower quantity supplied and higher price.
So yes, prices will go up but the business will also sell less units. Since less units are sold, there will be less capital that will need to be utilized.
Prices aren't arbitrarily set and increase in price will result in less units being sold and less employment. This isn't as controversial as journalists make it out to be.
Pre-political Paul Krugman does a great job explaining it:
> So what are the effects of increasing minimum wages? Any Econ 101 student can tell you the answer: The higher wage reduces the quantity of labor demanded, and hence leads to unemployment. This theoretical prediction has, however, been hard to confirm with actual data. Indeed, much-cited studies by two well-regarded labor economists, David Card and Alan Krueger, find that where there have been more or less controlled experiments, for example when New Jersey raised minimum wages but Pennsylvania did not, the effects of the increase on employment have been negligible or even positive. Exactly what to make of this result is a source of great dispute. Card and Krueger offered some complex theoretical rationales, but most of their colleagues are unconvinced; the centrist view is probably that minimum wages “do,” in fact, reduce employment, but that the effects are small and swamped by other forces.
> What is remarkable, however, is how this rather iffy result has been seized upon by some liberals as a rationale for making large minimum wage increases a core component of the liberal agenda–for arguing that living wages “can play an important role in reversing the 25-year decline in wages experienced by most working people in America” (as this book’s back cover has it). Clearly these advocates very much want to believe that the price of labor–unlike that of gasoline, or Manhattan apartments–can be set based on considerations of justice, not supply and demand, without unpleasant side effects.[0]
[0] http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/03/02/paul-krug...
Re: Raising Floor for Minimum Wage Pushes Economy into the Unknown
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Passing costs on the client isn't something you can just do. Many products and services have elastic demand. Fast food, for example, has been has found it very hard to raise away from their dollar menu pricing. Businesses don't have to cut jobs either. They just have to move them. Edit2: Costumers can also shift to lower cost alternatives. Online retailers have less overhead and lower labor costs. If you make Walmart…
>15 dollars will put people in most of the country out of work. So be it. Can't find a job that offers a living wage? We provide a social safety net and increase taxes on the wealthy to pay for it. Make more than a million dollars a year? 95% marginal tax rate. Tax rates are the lowest they've been in the history of the US, and all we've seen is a disgusting level of income equality.