Others may be unconsciously judging your features in ways you don't realise • Hacker News Board

Re: Others may be unconsciously judging your features in ways you don't realise

#41

Post by kleer001 » Wed, Jul 22, 2015, 4:34 PM UTC

slipjack wrote: post #32

blfr wrote: post #21

Being swayed by superficial cues is not irrational if they correlate to the underlying qualities you are trying to judge. And, of course, prior information should change the way you view new information. I don't see how it can do more harm than good if you can do better than chance. Neither would I be so confident that I can do better than millions of years of evolution, especially by reading resumes. We can guess wh…

> Being swayed by superficial cues is not irrational if they correlate to the underlying qualities you are trying to judge. I'd be pretty careful about this line of argument. What we think of as a clue to underlying qualities is cultural... for example, one of the biggest superficial differences in people is the color of their skin. What underlying qualities does skin color clue us in to? In the US and Europe, we hav…

>What underlying qualities does skin color clue us in to?

Depends on the context. Also, I bet that's the topic of at least several dissertations in the last few decades.

Re: Others may be unconsciously judging your features in ways you don't realise

#42

Post by noir_lord » Wed, Jul 22, 2015, 4:36 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #20

m_fayer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I'd also add that your face is a reflection of your personality and average emotional temperature. Your "neutral expression" will, over many years of muscle memory and habit, settle into some particular arrangement. People who tend toward bitterness, mistrust, anger, or anxiety - will look it, and inspire vague anxiety in anyone who deals with them. If, on the other hand, your neutral expression broadcast…

Aside from tending towards certain emotions, I'd wager that urban vs. rural residents probably have different default facial expressions. I've heard people refer to "Moscow face" (though oddly, not "New York face"), where people's expressions are blandly neutral, tending towards negative - it's a way of adjusting to living in a large urban center. I'm not sure what my default face while I'm out in public is, but I've…

> I've heard people refer to "Moscow face" (though oddly, not "New York face"), where people's expressions are blandly neutral, tending towards negative - it's a way of adjusting to living in a large urban center.

There is a cultural aspect here though as well, many Russians only smile amongst people they know, they think that people who smile at strangers are either simple or up to something, I once asked a Russian about this and he said that you pretty much never smile except with friends and it's a different kind of smile, he also said it was one of the things he liked about England in that we are fairly close to Russians in that regard.

http://www.russianlife.com/blog/why-dont-russians-smile/

Re: Others may be unconsciously judging your features in ways you don't realise

#43

Post by biturd » Wed, Jul 22, 2015, 4:37 PM UTC

Maybe we are not born this way, and it is our life and work experiences that make our faces that way. There is the obvious, construction worker, out in the sun, their face it going to get weathered and a more "hard" looking individual will come out. And perhaps he got into construction as a result of somewhat challenging life, which made him frown all the time so he got frown lines, which makes a person look a certain way, even distrusting.

Many things can influence how we look. And from this article it seems the markers are very subtle. I would almost expect to see people getting minor cosmetic surgery, where some lines are removed, some accentuated, an eyebrow tuck here, an eye pull there, a lip push here, a wrinkle added there.

All these are minimal invasive compared to full on look altering cosmetic surgery. We just have to figure out what to polish and what to prematurely age and distress.

Re: Others may be unconsciously judging your features in ways you don't realise

#44

Post by pavel_lishin » Wed, Jul 22, 2015, 4:39 PM UTC

noir_lord wrote: post #42

pavel_lishin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from tending towards certain emotions, I'd wager that urban vs. rural residents probably have different default facial expressions. I've heard people refer to "Moscow face" (though oddly, not "New York face"), where people's expressions are blandly neutral, tending towards negative - it's a way of adjusting to living in a large urban center. I'm not sure what my default face while I'm out in public is, but I've…

> I've heard people refer to "Moscow face" (though oddly, not "New York face"), where people's expressions are blandly neutral, tending towards negative - it's a way of adjusting to living in a large urban center. There is a cultural aspect here though as well, many Russians only smile amongst people they know, they think that people who smile at strangers are either simple or up to something, I once asked a Russian…

I grew up there until I was ten. My mom used to joke that if a stranger is smiling at you in the street, they've already got your wallet.

Re: Others may be unconsciously judging your features in ways you don't realise

#45

Post by noir_lord » Wed, Jul 22, 2015, 4:41 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #44

noir_lord wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've heard people refer to "Moscow face" (though oddly, not "New York face"), where people's expressions are blandly neutral, tending towards negative - it's a way of adjusting to living in a large urban center. There is a cultural aspect here though as well, many Russians only smile amongst people they know, they think that people who smile at strangers are either simple or up to something, I once asked a Russian…

I grew up there until I was ten. My mom used to joke that if a stranger is smiling at you in the street, they've already got your wallet.

haha.

Yeah the Russian I knew told me a story about if you where walking past a queue you joined it, didn't matter if you knew what was at the other end whatever it was could be bartered.

They where incredibly innovative in how they dealt with the lack of resources, bit like Cuba and keeping 60 year old cars on the road I guess, needs must when the devil drives.

Re: Others may be unconsciously judging your features in ways you don't realise

#46

Post by firethief » Wed, Jul 22, 2015, 4:46 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #33

blfr wrote: post #21

Being swayed by superficial cues is not irrational if they correlate to the underlying qualities you are trying to judge. And, of course, prior information should change the way you view new information. I don't see how it can do more harm than good if you can do better than chance. Neither would I be so confident that I can do better than millions of years of evolution, especially by reading resumes. We can guess wh…

It's been shown in at least one experiment that superficial appearances are correlated with underlying qualities. Specifically, simply by looking at two people one can choose the one better at math 55% of the time! https://mega.co.nz/#!6UxzVLIA!BVUOujU76VnhZM45QE4N2oFz0yLRTf... The title and abstract of the study (discussing gender stereotypes) more or less ignores the truly interesting bits of this study. Gender ste…

I'd rather not install an app to read that, but presumably they are measuring who is better educated in math. I would expect the correlation to be mostly explained by different ethnic groups in the location the study was conducted having different access to education, cultural values, and expectations placed on them.

It would go a long way toward distinguishing between those two possibilities if a computer judged the faces - find the eigenface(s) of different mathematical ability levels and see if there's a lot of correlation between those and ethnicity, or if features alone are the predictor.

Even if it is features alone though, I would expect a major involvement of education and self-fulfilling expectations: take a starting state where there is no correlation between facial features and math aptitude. Everyone would have their own beliefs about what faces are good at math (humans always see patterns). Some of those beliefs would happen to be similar, so people with certain features would be steered more toward math. As time passes, the bias becomes more legitimate and more self-perpetuating. The end result is a socially-imposed link between particular visible traits and ability in math.

Re: Others may be unconsciously judging your features in ways you don't realise

#47

Post by StavrosK » Wed, Jul 22, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

slipjack wrote: post #32

blfr wrote: post #21

Being swayed by superficial cues is not irrational if they correlate to the underlying qualities you are trying to judge. And, of course, prior information should change the way you view new information. I don't see how it can do more harm than good if you can do better than chance. Neither would I be so confident that I can do better than millions of years of evolution, especially by reading resumes. We can guess wh…

> Being swayed by superficial cues is not irrational if they correlate to the underlying qualities you are trying to judge. I'd be pretty careful about this line of argument. What we think of as a clue to underlying qualities is cultural... for example, one of the biggest superficial differences in people is the color of their skin. What underlying qualities does skin color clue us in to? In the US and Europe, we hav…

> What underlying qualities does skin color clue us in to

What underlying qualities does height clue us in to? Are you sure that, even though traits regularly correlate with other traits, skin color is the one trait that has no correlation with absolutely anything else? I don't find that very likely, personally.

Re: Others may be unconsciously judging your features in ways you don't realise

#48

Post by ericdykstra » Wed, Jul 22, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

Can anyone share actionable tips about how to make a better first impression?

Of course, much of beauty, attraction, first impression, etc is genetic, as this article points out. But what are some aspects that can be controlled? Anything from daily preparation stuff (what types of clothes we wear, what colors, to shave or not to shave) to the way we walk, or the way we talk, our facial expression, how we greet someone new, etc...

If anyone knows of some research or has any anecdotes, I'd like to hear of it!

Re: Others may be unconsciously judging your features in ways you don't realise

#49

Post by slipjack » Wed, Jul 22, 2015, 4:57 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #47

slipjack wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being swayed by superficial cues is not irrational if they correlate to the underlying qualities you are trying to judge. I'd be pretty careful about this line of argument. What we think of as a clue to underlying qualities is cultural... for example, one of the biggest superficial differences in people is the color of their skin. What underlying qualities does skin color clue us in to? In the US and Europe, we hav…

> What underlying qualities does skin color clue us in to What underlying qualities does height clue us in to? Are you sure that, even though traits regularly correlate with other traits, skin color is the one trait that has no correlation with absolutely anything else? I don't find that very likely, personally.

Er... my point was that most superficial qualities don't have a 1-to-1 mapping on internal qualities. Height is another great example.

Re: Others may be unconsciously judging your features in ways you don't realise

#50

Post by pixl97 » Wed, Jul 22, 2015, 5:01 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #47

slipjack wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being swayed by superficial cues is not irrational if they correlate to the underlying qualities you are trying to judge. I'd be pretty careful about this line of argument. What we think of as a clue to underlying qualities is cultural... for example, one of the biggest superficial differences in people is the color of their skin. What underlying qualities does skin color clue us in to? In the US and Europe, we hav…

> What underlying qualities does skin color clue us in to What underlying qualities does height clue us in to? Are you sure that, even though traits regularly correlate with other traits, skin color is the one trait that has no correlation with absolutely anything else? I don't find that very likely, personally.

>What underlying qualities does height clue us in to?

Possibly more than you think.

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1820836,0...