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Coin Card Teardown

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Re: Coin Card Teardown

#41

Post by mbreese »

stephengillie wrote: post #27
Globz wrote: post #16

This is the first time I am reading about this product but why mag stripe over smart cards? isn't it less secure and deprecated technology? it seems very useful but relying on mag stripe isn't the best move, no? Perhaps they couldn't "switch cards" while using smart cards so mag stripe was the only solution?

In the USA, magnetic swipe readers are EVERYwhere. And the collection of credit and debit networks connect every reader with almost every bank. It "just works" everywhere, and it's "impossible" for a retailer to be unable to connect to your bank. -Chip-and-pin? The card reader probably can't read it. -Apple/Google wallet and similar services? The card reader probably doesn't have an antenna for it. (Especially small…

Mag stripe readers are everywhere, but the banks have already started migrating over to chip and pin cards (with mag-stripe for backwards compatibility) for new issues. There are still older cards out there that won't expire for probably ~5 years or so, so I expect to see mag stripe readers around for at least that long. But it's fair to call it deprecated, even in the US.

However, the transition is coming to the US sooner rather than later. Banks want to see this transition happen quickly so that they can reduce fraud rates. Merchants that don't want to spend money on new terminals will be prodded along by the banks pushing fraud liability over to them.

This all ultimately means that this iteration of the Coin Card (mag-stripe only) has a pretty limited shelf life.

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#42

Post by ngoel36 »

I was so damn excited to use my Coin - the idea was brilliant. I tried to so hard to use it, but with a 30%+ failure rate, it became completely useless. Simply not worth the embarrassing "Sir, your card didn't work" or "Is this real?". And if I have to carry backups anyways, what's the point?

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#43

Post by BrentOzar »

ngoel36 wrote: post #42

I was so damn excited to use my Coin - the idea was brilliant. I tried to so hard to use it, but with a 30%+ failure rate, it became completely useless. Simply not worth the embarrassing "Sir, your card didn't work" or "Is this real?". And if I have to carry backups anyways, what's the point?

I like it because it got me down from several cards (debit, credit card A, credit card B, business card, business debit card) to two (debit card, Coin). The debit card is my backup to Coin.

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#44

Post by rio517 »

lvs wrote: post #7
treycopeland wrote: post #5

I received my Coin about 2 months ago. I was excited to test it out after preordering almost 2 years in advance. The concept of having all my cards on one central card was a great idea. But having it not work at some locations was rather embarrassing and frustrating. I have decided the Coin was a fail and I will not carry it anymore. But, Coin, keep innovating. You tried.

It sounds like just another startup hardware offering with a spotty launch. But I've always been confused about the perceived "embarrassment" of a card not working at the point of a transaction. This seems to be a common marketing trope in payments, but I don't know what it comes from. It's a piece of technology, and tech often doesn't work quite right. Sometimes my phone restarts itself. What's the big deal?

I have been super broke and unable to pay bills at two points in my life - just out of college and trying to find a job after the dot-come bust, and again when my startup failed. During those bad times, I'd lose track of my finances and a few times couldn't pay for my groceries.

I can't describe in words how much I felt like a total, utter failure. All the fears I had about how I was going to pay my bills that month, the pressure from family to pay them back for money borrowed, the pressure from roommates to come up with rent - all came bubbling up in those moments.

After all, I was the first kid in my family to go to college. I was the smart one who was supposed to have his shit together, but there I was - totally broke. It creates a fear that is not rational and hasn't gone away (at least for me).

About a year ago, I forgot my bank card at TJ's and only had $20 bucks on me. I was embarrassed in ways I can't describe. I was cold sweating to the point I was soaking my shirt. I had to leave everything except for some essentials I needed for that night. One of the cashiers lent me $5 to help me pay for my groceries (I paid him back). I feel weird that I accepted the $5, but I wasn't thinking rationally. I wanted to scream "no, really, I have my shit together now." I kept telling myself that this is not a big deal... chill out... But I just couldn't calm myself down. It was like poverty PTSD.

Even though I now have paid off all my debt, school loans and have a healthy nest egg, I still have these fears. Whenever my card won't go through on the first try or I type in the wrong pin number, my heart jumps.

It's entirely irrational.

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#45

Post by flurdy »

azdle wrote: post #19
Globz wrote: post #16

This is the first time I am reading about this product but why mag stripe over smart cards? isn't it less secure and deprecated technology? it seems very useful but relying on mag stripe isn't the best move, no? Perhaps they couldn't "switch cards" while using smart cards so mag stripe was the only solution?

The security that a smart card provides would actually prevent a product like this from working because one of the primary purposes of the chip system in CCs is to prevent cloning, but this relies on simply being able to enter your CC number into it. I can't remember what it was called, but I remember reading about something that does use a chip card and allows you to switch payment providers using a phone app, but t…

Plastc, https://www.plastc.com, has solved the multiple chip and pin issue. Although in an interesting yak shaving way due to the emv restrictions.

https://www.plastc.com/blog/talk-with-the-founders-update

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#46

Post by joezydeco »

mbreese wrote: post #41
stephengillie wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, magnetic swipe readers are EVERYwhere. And the collection of credit and debit networks connect every reader with almost every bank. It "just works" everywhere, and it's "impossible" for a retailer to be unable to connect to your bank. -Chip-and-pin? The card reader probably can't read it. -Apple/Google wallet and similar services? The card reader probably doesn't have an antenna for it. (Especially small…

Mag stripe readers are everywhere, but the banks have already started migrating over to chip and pin cards (with mag-stripe for backwards compatibility) for new issues. There are still older cards out there that won't expire for probably ~5 years or so, so I expect to see mag stripe readers around for at least that long. But it's fair to call it deprecated, even in the US. However, the transition is coming to the US…

Target has very quietly replaced all of their terminals with chip/pin readers. It looks like they started shortly after their huge data breach, which makes sense.

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#47

Post by joezydeco »

yrral wrote: post #30

Fcc photos of the coin pcb here [1] I think that the coils that drive the magstripe are only activated when the buttons to the left or right of the stripes are depressed (e.g. by the process of swiping). Also, I believe coin only transmits track 2 [2]. Why it looks like there's 2 coils is curious to me as well. [1] https://fccid.io/document.php?id=2397353 [2] https://support.onlycoin.com/hc/en-us/articles/204263414-C…

It seems like a logical thing to do, especially when you're trying to a) save power and b) time the speed of the coil's "stripes" to make the reader think it's seeing a physical card. It's probably also the source of a lot of rejected swipes.

Conductive rubber pads and/or membrane switches are always a bad thing. Necessary for this design, but they'll always fail you in the end.

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#48

Post by badlucklottery »

lvs wrote: post #7
treycopeland wrote: post #5

I received my Coin about 2 months ago. I was excited to test it out after preordering almost 2 years in advance. The concept of having all my cards on one central card was a great idea. But having it not work at some locations was rather embarrassing and frustrating. I have decided the Coin was a fail and I will not carry it anymore. But, Coin, keep innovating. You tried.

It sounds like just another startup hardware offering with a spotty launch. But I've always been confused about the perceived "embarrassment" of a card not working at the point of a transaction. This seems to be a common marketing trope in payments, but I don't know what it comes from. It's a piece of technology, and tech often doesn't work quite right. Sometimes my phone restarts itself. What's the big deal?

>I've always been confused about the perceived "embarrassment"

Imagine you've asked someone out on a date and you offer to pick up or even split the check but your card gets declined. I think most people would find this at least moderately embarrassing especially if they don't have a backup payment ready.

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#49

Post by lvs »

rio517 wrote: post #44
lvs wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like just another startup hardware offering with a spotty launch. But I've always been confused about the perceived "embarrassment" of a card not working at the point of a transaction. This seems to be a common marketing trope in payments, but I don't know what it comes from. It's a piece of technology, and tech often doesn't work quite right. Sometimes my phone restarts itself. What's the big deal?

I have been super broke and unable to pay bills at two points in my life - just out of college and trying to find a job after the dot-come bust, and again when my startup failed. During those bad times, I'd lose track of my finances and a few times couldn't pay for my groceries. I can't describe in words how much I felt like a total, utter failure. All the fears I had about how I was going to pay my bills that month,…

I hear you. Glad to hear you're on surer footing now.

Re: Coin Card Teardown

#50

Post by upofadown »

>I was surprised by the number of test pads exposed on the Coin - all those small metallic squares are programing points / test points. This suggests to me that Coin is still going though some debugging since it’s rare to see so many pads still exposed on a shipping product.

Perhaps their tester just couldn't probe the smaller pads/components. In general, any shipping product these days is going to have a significant number of test points, it is just that they are often not explicit.

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