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How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

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Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#41
post #23

> Fine. That’s what dragging a file from one place to another generally does! To me this is not fine. Usually dragging from a different device(USB Thumbdrive hard drive, SD Card Thumbdrive, ....) should copy the files, and the cloud should be considered as another device. Could a Mac user confirm if this is the default behavior on Mac devices?

Dragging from Dropbox, One drive, hubic all act as a move, not copy.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#42
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm that dragging between devices does 'copy' by default. And dragging from iCloud to local drive does 'move' by default.

In general 'modification' by default is bad.

It is what you expect on local drive. Windows do the same.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#43
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general 'modification' by default is bad.

It is what you expect on local drive. Windows do the same.

It is. That's why I quoted 'modification'. It's not a sensitive issue if it's easy to undo. Which is the case on a user selected files on a drive (unless it's between naive FS or sluggish drives). On a remote system, you'd have to reup the whole thing.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#46
post #6

And iBooks dropped all metadata at some point. The wrong network setting on iTunes nukes all your album art. iCal sync is a cruel joke. The moral is don't use Apple cloud services for anything you care about.

Apple doesn't have the right organizational structure to support cloud services across apps to a level of consistency and quality that Google and Amazon does. Nathan Taylor explains this quite well. http://praxtime.com/2013/11/03/apple-strat-tax-voice-as-god-...

Speaking as a former resident deep in Cue's org, I believe this is common knowledge internally, but there isn't alignment on how to address it. Even at the IC level, most people I spoke with are aware of Apple's shortcomings in services. Services are not the favored child at Apple. iOS and hardware are, because of revenue. Services ICs know that, and it hits morale directly; I saw (and felt) this. There are attempts to fix it, too, but those manifest as reorganizations. I was subjected to four in a year and a half.

You hear pains from teams like Maps, who were moved from iOS to services during my tenure, and who immediately ran into serious organizational problems, dried up budgets, and so on. The gettin' is good in iOSville, and once you leave iOS, it's a whole 'nother Apple. There's a common story about the origin of Maps at Apple where Maps was basically given a blank check, and they're still mopping up some of that excess to this day. That doesn't happen in services.

Meanwhile, organizationally, Siri is kind of outside the typical services structure for various legacy reasons and they're off iterating like all getout and having a blast without the encumberance of the services organization. Every time I met with Siri I always came away with questions like, in this organizational climate, how on earth are they getting so much done?

Apple needs a serious Microsoftism on services. If you would have told me five years ago that Microsoft under Nadella would completely reverse course and embrace the living hell out of services while Apple meandered in the "let's buy companies to implement our services strategy" grasslands, I'd have said the opposite is more likely, yet here we are.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#47
post #32
post #29

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201104 >If you need to access a file that you recently deleted, you might be able to recover it from iCloud.com. Sign in to iCloud.com, click Settings > Data & Security, then browse the list of files in the Recover Documents tab. Files will be removed from Recover Documents in 30 days.

Sounds solid. Did someone try it out?

So I just tried it. Uploaded 200 MB file through web. Checked that my MacBook shows the .icloud file. Moved whole folder with it. Was gone from the iCloud web BUT my laptop kept downloading it. Also it is in the Settings > Data & Security.

So. What is the fuzz?

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#48

Yeah, I'm not too interested in using any cloud storage: 1. slow 2. bugs that delete your data 3. company goes bust or dark for whatever reason 4. your private data is available to voyeuristic employees, hackers, spies, advertisers, researchers, monetizers, anyone who offers to buy it, stalkers, dragnets, and anyone who buys their used disk drives on ebay. No thanks.

For personal backup of key files (not endless GBs of movies, just documents and precious pictures) I usually sync a Sparse Disk Bundle[1] with a good AES key. Sure, you have to trust Apple's AES implementation (I don't to any great extent) but it gets you some degree of privacy without much hassle. It is a cheap insurance policy. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparse_image . It uses 8MB chunks by default which s…

I wrote a FUSE filesystem (https://github.com/netheril96/securefs) to secure the data that is meant to be synced to the cloud. In principle it is more secure than alternatives because the randomization and authentication of encryption. It encrypts file by file so that no need to sync a huge data when you only change a single file.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#49
post #4
post #3

So if I move a folder out of iCloud before the sync finishes every pending file is lost? Did I understand the article correctly?

That seems to be pretty clearly what this article is saying. And it's a goddamm disaster if that's the case.

I just tried that (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9888649) and it finished syncing the moved files. So no harm done and it even appeared in the iCloud.com Settings > Data & Security where I could recover it.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#50
I noticed this same phenomenon with all three of the auto-syncing cloud storage services I tested: Apple's iCloud, Google Drive, and Microsoft's SkyDrive.

During testing, all three of those services incorrectly deleted files when the cloud service got confused about synchronization. So for the particular application I had in mind, I wasn't able to use any of them and had to write scripts to handle the synchronization myself.

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