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I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me

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Re: I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me

#41

Post by current_call »

cjbprime wrote: post #38
current_call wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we reading the same article? It isn't about him. He's complaining about general trends and he has several specific examples. As Judith Shulevitz wrote in the New York Times, these refusals can shut down discussion in genuinely contentious areas, such as when Oxford canceled an abortion debate. More often, they affect surprisingly minor matters, as when Hamsphire College disinvited an Afrobeat band because their l…

> Rebecca Reilly Cooper, a political philosopher at the University of Warwick, worries about the effectiveness of a politics in which "particular experiences can never legitimately speak for any one other than ourselves, and personal narrative and testimony are elevated to such a degree that there can be no objective standpoint from which to examine their veracity." I see why you think I would do that, but when I say…

But that's not what you said. You said someone "who's actually been harmed" should write about it. That would be elevating personal narrative and testimony.

Re: I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me

#42

Post by Balgair »

namlem wrote: post #39
NTDF9 wrote: post #9

I used to be a liberal. Then I realized that I cannot trust everyone who cries foul. I haven't turned conservative either. But I don't hold liberal views as correct by default anymore. The problem with today's liberals is that they think political correctness is more important than factual data. Any rational argument requires dealing with cold hard facts, however brutal and hurtful they might be. There is no place fo…

It's crazy how far left liberalism has been pushed these past few years. Just as crazy as how far right conservatism has moved over the past couple decades. This extreme polarization is very worrying. It's not stable, and it's going to lead to serious problems.

Meh. It's always been there. It's just that the internet has allowed us to see it better.

Also, this definition of 'far' left or right (at least here in the states) is not all that far, historically speaking. Far right would be a return to religious law, banning of contraception, a return to a theocracy, etc. There are countries like that, and we view them as nuts and places you dont want to live in. Far left would be a total communist state (I think) and we all know those are equally as bad. Yet, people do live, love, have families, die, fight for, and defend those countries. Something else must be going on, right?

Again, there is a trap of viewing politics as a 1-D continuum. Granted this is better than a 1-D binary, but politics has as many dimensions as there are people, if not more. We all have opinions, or have the idea that our ideas are not important.

What is most important is that we VOTE. If we think these people are too far right or left, the best way to do something about that is to VOTE and participate in your community.

https://www.opencongress.org/people/zipcodelookup

http://www.civiced.org/resources/curriculum/lesson-plans/456...

https://www.gop.com/get-involved/

https://www.democrats.org/projects

and many more.

Re: I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me

#43

Post by norea-armozel »

NTDF9 wrote: post #9

I used to be a liberal. Then I realized that I cannot trust everyone who cries foul. I haven't turned conservative either. But I don't hold liberal views as correct by default anymore. The problem with today's liberals is that they think political correctness is more important than factual data. Any rational argument requires dealing with cold hard facts, however brutal and hurtful they might be. There is no place fo…

So do you think calling Caitlyn Jenner by her current name is PC? How about pronouns for transgender individuals? What about gay couples who are married? Do you think it's okay to say they're not married?

I ask these questions because the more I see people throw the term PC on such issues, it's really the person who's offended is the person who basically wants to be rude or otherwise anti-social.

Re: I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me

#44

Post by morpheous »

skissane wrote: post #36
BlackAura wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I should believe you, rather than the women to whom this happens all the time, because... why?

I just asked my partner if this ever happened to her. She told me that it did once, but it was a female colleague who did it to her, not a man. I asked her if a man ever did it to her, she said she couldn't remember that ever occurring.

Drawing conclusions from a sample size of 1. Never a good practise

Re: I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me

#45

Post by NTDF9 »

norea-armozel wrote: post #43
NTDF9 wrote: post #9

I used to be a liberal. Then I realized that I cannot trust everyone who cries foul. I haven't turned conservative either. But I don't hold liberal views as correct by default anymore. The problem with today's liberals is that they think political correctness is more important than factual data. Any rational argument requires dealing with cold hard facts, however brutal and hurtful they might be. There is no place fo…

So do you think calling Caitlyn Jenner by her current name is PC? How about pronouns for transgender individuals? What about gay couples who are married? Do you think it's okay to say they're not married? I ask these questions because the more I see people throw the term PC on such issues, it's really the person who's offended is the person who basically wants to be rude or otherwise anti-social.

>> So do you think calling Caitlyn Jenner by her current name is PC?

The expectation that every single individual knows everything about her history and should call her by her first name (instead of who she is best identified with...a transgender) is PC.

In return, I'd ask you this. Why do you think I'm insulting her by calling her a transgender? I'm genuinely saying this in a respectful way. It is you who thinks that I am insulting her. You are the one at fault...I'm the genuine person here.

I would in fact call a person asking me to be PC as being deceptive. You are the one totally ignoring that person's individuality. I, on the other hand, am fully accepting of her being a transgender....accepting her as an individual.

Who's the one at fault?

Re: I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me

#46

Post by dragonwriter »

NTDF9 wrote: post #45
norea-armozel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you think calling Caitlyn Jenner by her current name is PC? How about pronouns for transgender individuals? What about gay couples who are married? Do you think it's okay to say they're not married? I ask these questions because the more I see people throw the term PC on such issues, it's really the person who's offended is the person who basically wants to be rude or otherwise anti-social.

>> So do you think calling Caitlyn Jenner by her current name is PC? The expectation that every single individual knows everything about her history and should call her by her first name (instead of who she is best identified with...a transgender) is PC. In return, I'd ask you this. Why do you think I'm insulting her by calling her a transgender? I'm genuinely saying this in a respectful way. It is you who thinks tha…

> I'd ask you this. Why do you think I'm insulting her by calling her a transgender?

The use of adjectives like "transgender" as nouns to label people is fairly widely viewed as demeaning.

> I'm genuinely saying this in a respectful way.

Er, no. If you were saying it in a "respectful way", it wouldn't be followed by this:

> You are the one at fault...I'm the genuine person here.

Moving on,

> I would in fact call a person asking me to be PC as being deceptive.

No one has asked you to "be PC"; grandparent asked you several questions about what you considered to be PC, which you then responded to with several misrepresentations of what they asked.

> Who's the one at fault?

The one who is saying that someone else is "at fault" based on a number of things that were never actually said (leaving aside the question of whether or not, had they been said, they would have supported the assignment of fault.)

Re: I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me

#47

Post by NTDF9 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #46
NTDF9 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> So do you think calling Caitlyn Jenner by her current name is PC? The expectation that every single individual knows everything about her history and should call her by her first name (instead of who she is best identified with...a transgender) is PC. In return, I'd ask you this. Why do you think I'm insulting her by calling her a transgender? I'm genuinely saying this in a respectful way. It is you who thinks tha…

> I'd ask you this. Why do you think I'm insulting her by calling her a transgender? The use of adjectives like "transgender" as nouns to label people is fairly widely viewed as demeaning. > I'm genuinely saying this in a respectful way. Er, no. If you were saying it in a "respectful way", it wouldn't be followed by this: > You are the one at fault...I'm the genuine person here. Moving on, > I would in fact call a pe…

>> The use of adjectives like "transgender" as nouns to label people is fairly widely viewed as demeaning.

Exactly my point. In the quest for PC, we cannot speak the truth (the truth here being that she is a transgender) just because it is "widely perceived as hurtful". So, how do I do an objective study (say, census count of transgenders) without being "hurtful"?

(transgender = person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender....not one time was I being hurtful).

Re: I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me

#48

Post by dragonwriter »

NTDF9 wrote: post #47
dragonwriter wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd ask you this. Why do you think I'm insulting her by calling her a transgender? The use of adjectives like "transgender" as nouns to label people is fairly widely viewed as demeaning. > I'm genuinely saying this in a respectful way. Er, no. If you were saying it in a "respectful way", it wouldn't be followed by this: > You are the one at fault...I'm the genuine person here. Moving on, > I would in fact call a pe…

>> The use of adjectives like "transgender" as nouns to label people is fairly widely viewed as demeaning. Exactly my point. In the quest for PC, we cannot speak the truth (the truth here being that she is a transgender) just because it is "widely perceived as hurtful". So, how do I do an objective study (say, census count of transgenders) without being "hurtful"? (transgender = person whose self-identity does not co…

> In the quest for PC, we cannot speak the truth (the truth here being that she is a transgender)

No, the truth is she is a transgender person/woman/individual.

Its not the use of the adjective, in contexts where it is germane, that is demeaning, it is its use as a noun, separating the descriptor from the humanity of the person to whom it applies.

> So, how do I do an objective study (say, census count of transgenders) without being "hurtful"?

By using "transgender" as an adjective. Its not that hard to do.

Re: I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me

#49

Post by NTDF9 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #48
NTDF9 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The use of adjectives like "transgender" as nouns to label people is fairly widely viewed as demeaning. Exactly my point. In the quest for PC, we cannot speak the truth (the truth here being that she is a transgender) just because it is "widely perceived as hurtful". So, how do I do an objective study (say, census count of transgenders) without being "hurtful"? (transgender = person whose self-identity does not co…

> In the quest for PC, we cannot speak the truth (the truth here being that she is a transgender) No, the truth is she is a transgender person/woman/individual. Its not the use of the adjective, in contexts where it is germane, that is demeaning, it is its use as a noun, separating the descriptor from the humanity of the person to whom it applies. > So, how do I do an objective study (say, census count of transgender…

>> Its not the use of the adjective, in contexts where it is germane, that is demeaning, it is its use as a noun, separating the descriptor from the humanity of the person to whom it applies.

Do you realize how stupid and trivial this argument is? Any statistical analysis needs generalization. The generalization was not done in spite. It was for an objective study.

Re: I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me

#50

Post by norea-armozel »

NTDF9 wrote: post #45
norea-armozel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you think calling Caitlyn Jenner by her current name is PC? How about pronouns for transgender individuals? What about gay couples who are married? Do you think it's okay to say they're not married? I ask these questions because the more I see people throw the term PC on such issues, it's really the person who's offended is the person who basically wants to be rude or otherwise anti-social.

>> So do you think calling Caitlyn Jenner by her current name is PC? The expectation that every single individual knows everything about her history and should call her by her first name (instead of who she is best identified with...a transgender) is PC. In return, I'd ask you this. Why do you think I'm insulting her by calling her a transgender? I'm genuinely saying this in a respectful way. It is you who thinks tha…

She is a transgender woman. So you'd use her, hers, and herself. It's not that hard and it's not political.
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