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Why do people waste so much time at work?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#41

Post by sagichmal »

jotm wrote: post #27
Foomandoonian wrote: post #12

"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because…

"Cool story bro. Say that again when you can't pay your rent or even buy some food." - Me. I think everyone should experience that for a few weeks, it changes your perspective on many things.

You completely miss the point of the quoted passage. You should read it again.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#42

Post by Hytosys »

nathanvanfleet wrote: post #33
Foomandoonian wrote: post #12

"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because…

Going back to school and dilly-dallying is mostly only really going to be viable if your parents are the ones who earned a big enough living to support you. I know people like that. Maybe corporations should adopt poor people or commission huge parties or works of art.

This quote reads as advocacy for unconditional basic income. I don't think education would ever be considered "dilly-dallying" in a society where poverty is generally impossible.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#43

Post by rorykoehler »

mistaken wrote: post #40
Foomandoonian wrote: post #12

"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because…

I don't think that having jobs is the problem. A lot of people can benefit from having jobs. Ideally a workplace should provide a way to develop people, a stable income and clear goals. It is also less risky for the employer (doesn't have to search for someone when a task needs to be done) and the employees (stable income). I personally like to work in an environment where I can decide what has to be done, how to do…

The issue is that from birth most of us are conditioned, through education and culture to not take this responsibility. Most of those who beat the trap have their passion squeezed from them through poverty or dreary corporate jobs that consume them.

You wouldn't believe how many people ask me what people would do if they didn't have to work due to guaranteed basic income or some such. Why do I even have to answer that question. People can do whatever they want. It's not my or the systems job to to tell people what to do. If a person is lazy and the only way they can get motivated is by the threat of starving then that's their problem however I would still much prefer to live in a world were people have the option to be lazy and not faced a threat to their basic survival than what we have now where people are highly driven, working multiple jobs, but socio-economic circumstances mean they are trapped in a poverty cycle they can't escape from.

I agree with your premise regarding the workplace providing a way to develop people and to give people a chance to organize around clear goals however I also think this should be decoupled from income stability. Any income earned in the workplace would be a bonus on top of the bare minimum needed to survive which should be provided. How can we say we are civilized when we let people starve, be homeless and deny them access to medical help when they need it because they aren't wealthy enough. The world as it is now is so absurd. Someday (soon I hope) we will look back on this period in human history with bemusement.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#44

Post by sillygoose »

msutherl wrote: post #38
sillygoose wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living Right, because valuable things don't actually cost anything to produce! That's why they can just be (automatically) handed out by some big Magic Nanny-Fairy Machinery. We should all just get whatever we want, because we deserve it!

Indeed, some people don't deserve to survive.

You seem to be completely oblivious to my point(s).

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#45

Post by noonespecial »

sillygoose wrote: post #34
Foomandoonian wrote: post #12

"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because…

> We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living Right, because valuable things don't actually cost anything to produce! That's why they can just be (automatically) handed out by some big Magic Nanny-Fairy Machinery. We should all just get whatever we want, because we deserve it!

No, we should all be able to get whatever we need because for the first time in history, we can.

If individuals would like to pursue even more (ie the things they want), they should be free to do so, so long as those wants don't occlude the afore stated needs of others.

The interesting thing is that we (humanity) could now actually do this if we wanted to. In the past, the laws of physics (and our lack of knowledge) prevented this. Now only politics do. The "Magic Nanny-Fairy Machinery" is real, and it looks like in the end, all it will require to operate is natural resources. We are piss poor at equitably distributing preexisting natural resources amongst ourselves.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#46

Post by davidgerard »

nshepperd wrote: post #11

> In this respect, entire occupations might be considered phoney - from life coaches to "atmosphere co-ordinators" (people hired to create a party vibe in bars) to "chief learning officers" in the corporate world. People hired to create atmosphere in bars might be "phoney" in an object-level sense, but as far as their job goes presumably they do provide an actual service to someone, by causing more people to visit th…

It's still a Bullshit Job. http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/

The answer to the BBC news story's question is: "because our jobs increasingly have more and more bullshit."

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#47

Post by erikb »

_pmf_ wrote: post #22
erikb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say we all agree that the global amount of resources are enough to support all of us without work, just for simplification. Then what about distribution of these resources? I feel many people work to fight over that distribution, not just to produce. E.g., there might be no $1000/h lawyer who would think that they produce even $100/h worth of resources. But they might still work 80h/week (or make the impression…

> Then what about distribution of these resources? The point is that this is an entirely separate question. On a global scale, it's hard to find a worse distribution scheme than the currently used scheme, so any arbitrary distribution is better than the current one (in which the powerful take increasingly more).

The quote mentions that people either work to make a living or to make a reason for living. My argument is that there is another reason which is quite common: to get a bigger piece of the pie. If you put in more hours on friday night because you want a raise then the reason is not that you want to pay your bills (you already do that), and it's not because you couldn't do anything else on friday night that would be reasonable in your eyes. It's because you want a bigger share for yourself.

So I'm not discussing about how to share the resources, but I want to say that's a reason for people to work. The question was more "Isn't that also a reason to work?" Sorry for not being clear enough.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#48

Post by rorykoehler »

sillygoose wrote: post #34
Foomandoonian wrote: post #12

"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because…

> We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living Right, because valuable things don't actually cost anything to produce! That's why they can just be (automatically) handed out by some big Magic Nanny-Fairy Machinery. We should all just get whatever we want, because we deserve it!

Every time there is any thread about anything remotely socially progressive you are there espousing your highly conservative viewpoint. This made me curious and I am really trying to understand what life experiences could have led you to have such views. I have a few questions that might help paint a clearer picture if you would be so kind? If you decide to answer please answer honestly.

Where did you grow up? What were your parents jobs? How much did your parents earn in yearly income? Have you ever not eaten for multiple days on end because you couldn't afford to buy food? What do you work as? How much do you currently earn? How do you personally calculate the cost and value of a good or service? Do you understand the difference in the meaning of the words 'want' and 'need'?

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#49

Post by sillygoose »

jnbiche wrote: post #37
jotm wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Cool story bro. Say that again when you can't pay your rent or even buy some food." - Me. I think everyone should experience that for a few weeks, it changes your perspective on many things.

The quote does not imply this is the way things are , it's talking about what he believes things should be . Yes, of course many people have to work nonsense jobs now or else they'd starve, but that's because we don't have anything like basic income. With basic income, the lack of food and shelter you refer to wouldn't be an issue -- at least for citizens of the country with basic income.

I'm guessing his point was that we're so accustomed to relatively comfortable living (especially here on HN), that we take valuable things for granted.

That leads to a sense of entitlement and confusion. We don't see how valuable the things we have are, so we end up thinking they should be "free", without realizing that nothing of value is actually free, because otherwise it wouldn't have value.

So if we experienced real hardship, our thinking would shift, and we'd appreciate valuable things more and we'd feel less entitled.

My point in another, heavily hissy-fit-downvoted message, was that everything of value costs something to produce, and therefore things can't just be handed out for free, because the things themselves are not actually free.

The same applies to "free money" in the form of Basic Income. People like to fantasize about not being personally responsible for their choices in life. Instead, they'd just get free money every month without having to work. "We have the technology!! Why aren't you giving me free stuff?! Damn capitalist oppressors!!"

People should think about how things work in the real world.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#50

Post by rorykoehler »

boothead wrote: post #32

I'm reading this at the moment: http://www.reinventingorganizations.com/ Some extracts from the intro: "And it’s not only at the bottom of the pyramid. There is a dirty secret I have discovered in the fifteen years I have spent consulting and coaching organizational leaders: life at the top of the pyramids isn’t much more fulfilling. Behind the façade and the bravado, the lives of powerful corporate leaders are ones…

Also reading this. Great book.
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