I flagged this without even looking at the article. Is that bad?
Yes.
PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."
41–50 of 80 posts
Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."
#42Fuck [iPhone developers] those condescending, ignorant, self-important, stupid, blind, fearful pricks. Fuck them real hard. Where it hurts. And fucking them real hard where it hurts is exactly what Apple is doing right now. We choose the world we want to live in, and I don't want to live in a world where writing like this is unremarkable. It adds nothing to the overall argument and coarsens us to no purpose. I am sym…
Your attribution is wrong. He's not talking about iPhone developers, he's talking about the people in the sentence before it: After ten years I am fucking tired of the “Web development is not real programming” bullshit that the arrogant bastards in “real programming” are spouting because they’re too frightened to learn something new. Now, the Venn diagram may have some overlap, but still.
The author seems to be suffering from a lot of insecurity and anger issues - and I mean that in the most non-judgmental way possible. I think it's pretty clear that most of HN works on web technologies, and personally I haven't really seen this condescending divide between 'web programming' and 'real programming' - which at the end of the day seems to be about the same thing really.
I do however object to his calling the entire iPhone developer community out as stupid and arrogant. How arrogant is it to presume that everyone of the many iPhone developers who have complaints about the current approval system is, in his words, stupid? If anything the author is the arrogant, misinformed, and dare I say, stupid one here.
I'm torn about whether or not to flag this. While this has generated some good discussion on HN, I don't think we should really cater to troll material like this. If you cannot communicate your opinions in an intelligent, civil way, and cannot deal with your fellow developers with some decorum, then please don't say anything at all.
Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."
#43While he basically raises some valid points, he ignores two critical ones: 1) With the appstore being the one authority to get apps on your iPhone, you will automatically get much less traction using the web 2) The appstore makes it VERY easy for the devs to actually get paid. If you launch your app web-only, you have to incorporate the whole payment process yourself, which sucks. Catch 22...
3) An appstore app will (or at least could) continue to work even when I don't have network connectivity. A Web app won't.
Yep. And I don't have to bear the time cost of the interface downloading and rendering. As a user and not a developer I will take a native app over a web app any day.
But giving this article any credence is giving it too much credit. It's shock-blogging and nothing more.
Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."
#44While he basically raises some valid points, he ignores two critical ones: 1) With the appstore being the one authority to get apps on your iPhone, you will automatically get much less traction using the web 2) The appstore makes it VERY easy for the devs to actually get paid. If you launch your app web-only, you have to incorporate the whole payment process yourself, which sucks. Catch 22...
3) An appstore app will (or at least could) continue to work even when I don't have network connectivity. A Web app won't.
That's just not true. In the latest iPhone OS you can have a webapp run offline...
Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."
#45While he basically raises some valid points, he ignores two critical ones: 1) With the appstore being the one authority to get apps on your iPhone, you will automatically get much less traction using the web 2) The appstore makes it VERY easy for the devs to actually get paid. If you launch your app web-only, you have to incorporate the whole payment process yourself, which sucks. Catch 22...
3) An appstore app will (or at least could) continue to work even when I don't have network connectivity. A Web app won't.
False. Please RTFM: http://developer.apple.com/safari/library/documentation/iPho...
Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your first point is so valid. Having created a webapp for the iPhone myself there really are few places I can go to put my webapp on a stage that anyone cares about. If someone knows of any I honestly would love to know where they are.
Why not create an iPhone app, which is simply a WebKit view dedicated to your web app? The client see's it as a "iPhone app" you can host/sell it in the store, but it's really just a web app. (Maybe there's a restriction on this, but I can't see why there would be...)
Its my understanding that Apple would like require an "explicit" rating, since you could change your web page to have pictures of an "inappropriate" nature.
So this doesn't solve the problem.
Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
3) An appstore app will (or at least could) continue to work even when I don't have network connectivity. A Web app won't.
That's just not true. In the latest iPhone OS you can have a webapp run offline...
Any reasonably interesting web app is going to do it's "work" on the server. A web app can run it's UI in offline mode but you've scooped it out's brains.
Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."
#48This article could be written much less offensively as, "The appcache in iPhone OS > 2.1 means web apps don't have to be second-class citizens." As it is, it makes some strong assertions but fails to actually educate developers.
That said, I agree with most of the points in this article, but I think the biggest reason why the App Store will continue to be the authority for iPhone apps is simple: it's a total pain to enter credit card payment information on your phone.
Until someone changes that, nobody will want to pay $0.99 for even a spectacularly good web app. Perhaps the solution is to use a more common payment system, like Amazon or Paypal credentials.
Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your attribution is wrong. He's not talking about iPhone developers, he's talking about the people in the sentence before it: After ten years I am fucking tired of the “Web development is not real programming” bullshit that the arrogant bastards in “real programming” are spouting because they’re too frightened to learn something new. Now, the Venn diagram may have some overlap, but still.
The author seems to be suffering from a lot of insecurity and anger issues - and I mean that in the most non-judgmental way possible. I think it's pretty clear that most of HN works on web technologies, and personally I haven't really seen this condescending divide between 'web programming' and 'real programming' - which at the end of the day seems to be about the same thing really. I do however object to his calling…
I've certainly seen "web programming" vs "real programming" thing before. Must just be different scenes.
Re: PPK: "Apple is not evil. iPhone developers are stupid."
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's just not true. In the latest iPhone OS you can have a webapp run offline...
Any reasonably interesting web app is going to do it's "work" on the server. A web app can run it's UI in offline mode but you've scooped it out's brains.
Either you meant "it's data", or you're doing it wrong. http://sproutcore.com http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/09/chris-anderson-couchd...