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6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

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Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#41

Post by [deleted] »

rrss1122 wrote: post #37
calibraxis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our bureaucratic preoccupation with racial and gender categories is much like those who segmented bloodlines into Untouchables, or royalty. (As if it was ever impressive to be related to some glorified dictator called a "king".) Consider that, depending on your racial category, it may be ok for the US state to choke you to death in public. Even just to speak normal English, you have to basically surveil into people's…

"Consider that, depending on your racial category, it may be ok for the US state to choke you to death in public." It is never OK, ever.

[deleted]

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#42

Post by beachstartup »

jrells wrote: post #10

As a white guy with a (very mildly) African American sounding name, I have had similar experiences. When I meet people in person after emailing them they sometimes seem surprised, and some later admit they expected me to be black. The worst example was when I was told by someone renting a room on craigslist that they couldn't rent to me because I was a "security threat", even though I had hardly said anything about m…

of course they can escape it. they just have to change their name. that's what my family did for me, and what i will do for my kids if i have kids. as far as i'm concerned if you have serious professional ambitions in the US, you're being foolish if you keep an 'ethnic' sounding name.

keeping your disadvantageous name and arrogantly shaking your fist at the world to change to suit your political tastes is insane to me.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#43

Post by gambiting »

anthonymartinez wrote: post #33
Kenji wrote: post #6

I don't think the other people are at fault here. I think it's reasonable to assume that someone with a stereotypically black name is black, just like it's reasonable to assume that a random IT professor is male based on the fact that 90%* actually are. As long as you owe up to your error when you notice it (and e.g. apologize). It's a reasonable optimization that works out more often than not. The problem only start…

I would push back on that view and say other people are absolutely at fault here. if thats not something we can't or won't own up to as a society, then we will have to continue to live with the consequences of stereotyping which, good and bad, harm us all in many subtle and not-so-subtle ways. difficult, but necessary.

Ok. So why is it legal for insurance companies to increase price for young drivers, but not for men* (*at least in some countries)? Both groups cause more accidents than average,but it's legal to "stereotype" against one group but not the other? To anyone shouting that it's not "stereotyping" but true statistic, then I would reply that it's also true that Jamaal is mostly used by black men, therefore the probability of someone with that name being black is very high, and not a stereotype, but merely an observation.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#44

Post by Mc_Big_G »

nashequilibrium wrote: post #40
Kenji wrote: post #6

I don't think the other people are at fault here. I think it's reasonable to assume that someone with a stereotypically black name is black, just like it's reasonable to assume that a random IT professor is male based on the fact that 90%* actually are. As long as you owe up to your error when you notice it (and e.g. apologize). It's a reasonable optimization that works out more often than not. The problem only start…

This is what amazes me about white America: 1: 14% of the population is black, 2: 90% of white America have never spoken to a black person let alone have a black friend. 3: So where do their stereotypes come from, rap?, news?, (with regards to height) NBA? 4: They don't like to talk about this and this will be flagged off HN. It amazes me with so little to no interaction with a group, white America can infer a black…

>90% of white America have never spoken to a black person let alone have a black friend.

Are you being serious? Citation needed.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#45

Post by hyperpape »

nashequilibrium wrote: post #40
Kenji wrote: post #6

I don't think the other people are at fault here. I think it's reasonable to assume that someone with a stereotypically black name is black, just like it's reasonable to assume that a random IT professor is male based on the fact that 90%* actually are. As long as you owe up to your error when you notice it (and e.g. apologize). It's a reasonable optimization that works out more often than not. The problem only start…

This is what amazes me about white America: 1: 14% of the population is black, 2: 90% of white America have never spoken to a black person let alone have a black friend. 3: So where do their stereotypes come from, rap?, news?, (with regards to height) NBA? 4: They don't like to talk about this and this will be flagged off HN. It amazes me with so little to no interaction with a group, white America can infer a black…

So, your overall question is a good one, but #2 is a howler. The reported statistic I've seen is that 40% of Americans say they don't have a close friend of a different race. But I'm confident that 99% of white Americans have spoken to a black person.

Except for a few states like Vermont, most states and most cities have significant black populations. See, for instance: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-most-diverse-cities-.... Even in spite of that segregation, people do talk to each other (they may not live on the same block, but they do eventually meet each other).

Do you live in the US? If you don't, please do try to get basic facts about us right. Our country has a lot of problems, but you can't understand them without having a basic factual grasp of our demographics.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#46

Post by alex8022 »

nashequilibrium wrote: post #40
Kenji wrote: post #6

I don't think the other people are at fault here. I think it's reasonable to assume that someone with a stereotypically black name is black, just like it's reasonable to assume that a random IT professor is male based on the fact that 90%* actually are. As long as you owe up to your error when you notice it (and e.g. apologize). It's a reasonable optimization that works out more often than not. The problem only start…

This is what amazes me about white America: 1: 14% of the population is black, 2: 90% of white America have never spoken to a black person let alone have a black friend. 3: So where do their stereotypes come from, rap?, news?, (with regards to height) NBA? 4: They don't like to talk about this and this will be flagged off HN. It amazes me with so little to no interaction with a group, white America can infer a black…

Source?

I'm asking because I find it hard to believe (almost impossible) that 90% of white people have never spoken to a black person.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#48

Post by kazinator »

Kenji wrote: post #6

I don't think the other people are at fault here. I think it's reasonable to assume that someone with a stereotypically black name is black, just like it's reasonable to assume that a random IT professor is male based on the fact that 90%* actually are. As long as you owe up to your error when you notice it (and e.g. apologize). It's a reasonable optimization that works out more often than not. The problem only start…

"No, I'm not Japanese, you idiot; 100% white European descent, in fact!"

"Oh, I'm sorry Mr. Shigeru Kobayashi, I just ass ... "

"Yes, like other members of the rubble, you just assumed, thereby making an ALL out of U and ME."

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#49

Post by hyperpape »

rrss1122 wrote: post #37
calibraxis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our bureaucratic preoccupation with racial and gender categories is much like those who segmented bloodlines into Untouchables, or royalty. (As if it was ever impressive to be related to some glorified dictator called a "king".) Consider that, depending on your racial category, it may be ok for the US state to choke you to death in public. Even just to speak normal English, you have to basically surveil into people's…

"Consider that, depending on your racial category, it may be ok for the US state to choke you to death in public." It is never OK, ever.

I think they clearly don't mean "really ok" but "will be treated as ok by the government".

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#50

Post by commandar »

lotsofmangos wrote: post #15
Kenji wrote: post #6

I don't think the other people are at fault here. I think it's reasonable to assume that someone with a stereotypically black name is black, just like it's reasonable to assume that a random IT professor is male based on the fact that 90%* actually are. As long as you owe up to your error when you notice it (and e.g. apologize). It's a reasonable optimization that works out more often than not. The problem only start…

I think it's reasonable to assume that someone with a stereotypically black name is black It's easy to assume that. It really is a very rough guide though, so if you stick to it, don't be surprised if you end up looking like a complete idiot on several occasions throughout your life.

At the same time, I can kind of understand the point he's getting at.

Similar issue: I worked with someone via email for several months thinking they were female because their name is Kim before a coworker mentioned "uh, pretty sure Kim's a dude." You run into similar issues with e.g., women named Chris. I don't think being thrown by situations like that makes anyone look like an idiot.

Looking at it from an ethnic perspective, I'd be similarly thrown by finding out a guy named Santosh was a European white male.

Ideal world, sure, we wouldn't make assumptions about identity based on names. But it happens. I'm not sure that there is an answer that'd make everyone happy, to be honest.

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