Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft makes its case for Windows 10

dailystar.com.lb

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–49 of 49 posts

Re: Microsoft makes its case for Windows 10

#41

Post by WalterGR »

zaroth wrote: post #39
WalterGR wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I sit down in front of Win8 I feel like my head is going to explode. I use Windows 8 at work. I power it on, dismiss the new 'start screen', and from that point on it's almost EXACTLY like every version of Windows that came before it. Look: you don't like Metro apps? Then don't use them. As it stands, your problems - and the problems described by every other person on HN who has had their good sense simila…

For now I just avoid it. I don't use a Win8 machine myself, so I have never had the cause to modify one back to Win7 behavior. But the Win8 machines I have had to use seem to push you back into Metro no matter how often you try to Win-D out of it, e.g. like the Network Settings example I got down-voted for below.

   I don't use a Win8 machine myself, so I have never had the cause to modify one back to Win7 behavior.
You don't need to "modify it back to Win7 behavior." Dismiss the Windows 8 'start screen' then don't use Metro apps. Magic.

    But the Win8 machines I have had to use seem to 
    push you back into Metro no matter how often you
    try to Win-D out of it, e.g. like the Network
    Settings example I got down-voted for below.
You're doing something to cause the behavior you don't like.

Were this any other platform, the advice on HN would be: 1. Figure out what you're doing to cause the behavior you don't like. 2. Stop doing it.

Re: Microsoft makes its case for Windows 10

#42

Post by Goronmon »

zaroth wrote: post #29
sosuke wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deleting a Mail account was very painful, but so far it has been the only painful part of 8.1 I've run into.

I guess I got lucky with that one, right? I mean, who would think to go into the account settings and scroll to the bottom of a side-panel with no scroll bars to find a button called 'Remove Account'? Even the videos I was finding on YouTube were showing a way to get a 'Delete' button to show up in the Account list somehow. I mean, imagine, I have to search on YouTube for a video describing how to delete a mail accou…

In Win7 I start all programs by clicks Start, typing a few letters, and clicking Enter. That sometimes works in Win8, but often you type the name of a program and the auto-complete suggestions are just complete utter Rubbish?!

I lot of the auto-complete is learned behavior. Use it enough and it figures out what you generally want to use given the keys you enter. Win7 is probably working better because you use it more.

Then there's the massive cognitive dissonance between Metro and Windows. I'm just constantly hammering Windows-D to try to get back to sanity. The Metro apps hide all scroll and title panes, so just minimizing the window is an act of waiting for UI elements to appear. I mean, the OS is called fucking "Windows" and they eliminated the entire concept of a window. It's just mind blowing.

Then don't use Metro apps? Ignore the Windows Store and Win8 functions the same as Win7.

Re: Microsoft makes its case for Windows 10

#43

Post by bitmapbrother »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #4

I'm worried they will inadvertently pollute their store with garbage from Google Play. Most people use just a handful of quality apps. From my corner I hear a lot of grumbling from devs about Google's terrible Android SDK, poor documentation, buggy releases, flaky and buggy tools. "“Our goal is to make Windows 10 the most attractive development platform ever,” Microsoft executive Terry Myerson told an audience" I nev…

Considering the windows phone store is a cesspool of low quality and counterfeit apps already I don't think you anything to worry about.

Re: Microsoft makes its case for Windows 10

#44

Post by zyb09 »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #4

I'm worried they will inadvertently pollute their store with garbage from Google Play. Most people use just a handful of quality apps. From my corner I hear a lot of grumbling from devs about Google's terrible Android SDK, poor documentation, buggy releases, flaky and buggy tools. "“Our goal is to make Windows 10 the most attractive development platform ever,” Microsoft executive Terry Myerson told an audience" I nev…

I beg to differ. Most of these "grumbling devs" must have never seen what poor documentation looks like if they think Android's SDK has issues with it. On the contrary, its very well documented in my opinion. The tools are solid too, you can't really complain about IntelliJ as an IDE basis and the build system is good too ever since they switched to Gradle.

Of course you could bitch about how they constantly release new APIs for everything, but so does every other platform.

Re: Microsoft makes its case for Windows 10

#45

Post by bitmapbrother »

edgyswingset wrote: post #8
clumsysmurf wrote: post #4

I'm worried they will inadvertently pollute their store with garbage from Google Play. Most people use just a handful of quality apps. From my corner I hear a lot of grumbling from devs about Google's terrible Android SDK, poor documentation, buggy releases, flaky and buggy tools. "“Our goal is to make Windows 10 the most attractive development platform ever,” Microsoft executive Terry Myerson told an audience" I nev…

I think the biggest issue is inertia. Most everyone I speak with knows that the toolset for developing on Windows is superior to that of Android (language, IDE, testing, etc), but it's no simple task to be Windows-centric, shell out the cash for licenses, and convince a lot of people to abandon the language and ecosystem they already know for a new one.

Hardly. IntelliJ is far superior to that bloated IDE they call Visual Studio. 12+ gigabytes to install an IDE is just insane.

Re: Microsoft makes its case for Windows 10

#46

Post by rdtsc »

hetman wrote: post #18
rdtsc wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protip: Install Git for windows. Then instead of regular cmd console, you can right click on the folder and use "Git bash". Not full on bash, but you get a better console with ssh, scp and a few other utilities.

You're probably better off installing standalone MSYS with something like mingw-get-installer which also gives you a convenient GUI for installing other common GNU/Unix utilities (and a somewhat crappy command line package manager). It even gives you a half decent terminal (in the form of mintty). I tend to do most of my windows scripting using bash cause it's just less effort that way. Still, it's not a first class…

I went off the fact that most people caring about some command line on Windows likely also installed Git on it. In that case it is like getting it for free.

Re: Microsoft makes its case for Windows 10

#47

Post by mkr-hn »

bad_user wrote: post #23
clumsysmurf wrote: post #4

I'm worried they will inadvertently pollute their store with garbage from Google Play. Most people use just a handful of quality apps. From my corner I hear a lot of grumbling from devs about Google's terrible Android SDK, poor documentation, buggy releases, flaky and buggy tools. "“Our goal is to make Windows 10 the most attractive development platform ever,” Microsoft executive Terry Myerson told an audience" I nev…

I'm an Android user and I don't feel that Google Play is in the bad shape that you're describing. Quite the contrary, I believe that it's the best app store right now. And I also own a Nokia Lumia, an iPhone and an iPad, so I could make lots of comparisons. Android as a platform is also the best. Maybe I'm biased, Android being the first platform I tried my hand at - but that's also because Android's SDK is the only…

I can't find anything I don't already know the name of on Google Play due to all the me-too apps. They need to either fix discovery or cull the garbage.

Re: Microsoft makes its case for Windows 10

#48

Post by zaroth »

WalterGR wrote: post #41
zaroth wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For now I just avoid it. I don't use a Win8 machine myself, so I have never had the cause to modify one back to Win7 behavior. But the Win8 machines I have had to use seem to push you back into Metro no matter how often you try to Win-D out of it, e.g. like the Network Settings example I got down-voted for below.

I don't use a Win8 machine myself, so I have never had the cause to modify one back to Win7 behavior. You don't need to "modify it back to Win7 behavior." Dismiss the Windows 8 'start screen' then don't use Metro apps. Magic. But the Win8 machines I have had to use seem to push you back into Metro no matter how often you try to Win-D out of it, e.g. like the Network Settings example I got down-voted for below. You're…

> You're doing something to cause the behavior you don't like

You mean, like clicking the Start button? Clicking the 'Start' button in Win8 brings up a metro-style screen which annoys me every time I see it. You can pin as many programs on the taskbar as possible, but if you want to run a one-off program, the only alternative is Win-R and knowing the name of the executable. Can you get back the standard Win7 start menu? Possibly, but like I said, I don't use Win8 enough to bother trying to modify it back to Win7.

Re: Microsoft makes its case for Windows 10

#49

Post by MetaCosm »

hobarrera wrote: post #25
taylorlapeyre wrote: post #6

Until Windows supports and supplies bash + the gnu core utils by default, they will have a hard time getting me to switch.

I don't we'll eve see gnu core utils (due to licensing), but BSD core utilities would be great though.

I don't think that would be terribly useful, as a bunch of concepts important to Windows the BSD core utilities would have no idea about. Registry, NTFS, etc.

Honestly, I find 'nix users unwilling to learn PowerShell the exact same as Windows user unwilling to learn a 'nix shell and core utilities.

PowerShell doesn't have SED -- but it has pipeline replacement.

  $ cat .\x.txt | %{$_ -replace "sed", "powershell"}
It also has ideas that are completely different... rather than plain text pipe, it has an object pipe, which lets you do stuff like:

  $ ps | sort company | ft ProcessName -groupby company
Which outputs your processes in table format grouped by company, like

  ...
   Company: Greenshot

  ProcessName
  -----------
  Greenshot

   Company: inkscape.org

  ProcessName
  -----------
  inkscape

   Company: IvoSoft

  ProcessName
  -----------
  ClassicStartMenu

   Company: Microsoft Corporation

  ProcessName
  -----------
  taskhostex
  conhost
  explorer
  ...
Post reply on HN