Uber Is Testing a Massive Merchant Delivery Program • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Is Testing a Massive Merchant Delivery Program

#41

Post by bryanlarsen » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 2:55 PM UTC

dylanjermiah wrote: post #18

sschueller wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the backs of 1099 workers. Uber needs to be work on some social responsibility. Do we really want a country where the majority are struggling to serve the few?

They're free to work for whoever they want. No one is forcing anyone to drive for Uber, they're doing it voluntarily. Why forcibly stop consensual behaviour?

- competitors (aka normal delivery companies) pay benefits to their employees, so Uber has an unfair advantage because they don't.

- because of pooling it is more efficient overall to force companies or governments to pay benefits than it is to have individuals self-insure

Re: Uber Is Testing a Massive Merchant Delivery Program

#42

Post by tech_is_amoral » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:03 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #37

dylanjermiah wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people are consensually engaging in an activity and it is not harmful in anyway to others, it is perfectly fine.

The problem is it is harmful to others. There is always someone who is willing to work for less or worse conditions which collectively affects everyone.

Competition is what allows us to do more with fewer resources, which makes us all better off.

Re: Uber Is Testing a Massive Merchant Delivery Program

#43

Post by crdb » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:04 PM UTC

tempodox wrote: post #8

After appearing in TC & on HN, the “quietly” attribute may be removed from the testing. It has become quite loud now.

I believe this is the essay you're looking for: http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

Re: Uber Is Testing a Massive Merchant Delivery Program

#44

Post by tech_is_amoral » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:06 PM UTC

dhruvbird wrote: post #40

dylanjermiah wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people are consensually engaging in an activity and it is not harmful in anyway to others, it is perfectly fine.

Is prostitution perfectly fine?

Assuming there's no coercion occurring, I would say yes.

Re: Uber Is Testing a Massive Merchant Delivery Program

#45

Post by fanalog » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:19 PM UTC

richwalinsky wrote: post #36

This company is in a inherently interesting space, directing large numbers of people using software for stuff that happens outside of the computer and also offer lots of jobs for people

Did you copy the other comment, or is there a bot writing pro-Uber comments in here?

Re: Uber Is Testing a Massive Merchant Delivery Program

#46

Post by theophrastus » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:44 PM UTC

Bezos was an early invester in Uber, (http://www.geekwire.com/2011/jeff-bezos-hops-uber-invests-pr...) so until the drones darken the sky hauling Amazon boxes this makes some sense.

Re: Uber Is Testing a Massive Merchant Delivery Program

#47

Post by ashark » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:49 PM UTC

dylanjermiah wrote: post #18

sschueller wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the backs of 1099 workers. Uber needs to be work on some social responsibility. Do we really want a country where the majority are struggling to serve the few?

They're free to work for whoever they want. No one is forcing anyone to drive for Uber, they're doing it voluntarily. Why forcibly stop consensual behaviour?

Freedom of choice comes in degrees, with no sharp divide between free and not free.

The freedom of an individual to negotiate with employers exists in a context of wild inequality in negotiating position, information asymmetry, and coordination problems among workers that lead to a race to the bottom (absent collective bargaining or government intervention).

I don't know enough about Uber and their workers to comment on that in particular, but I don't think that "they could have not signed on, so it's OK" is necessarily a strong position from which to oppose collective intervention, governmental or otherwise, without qualification of the degree to which participants in an agreement were free to make their decisions, and what the consequences of thier decisions will be on the choices available to others. Since we're talking about low-wage workers and a giant company, my guess is that closer examination of those considerations won't aid an anti-intervention or pro-market (for common definitions of pro-market) argument.

Re: Uber Is Testing a Massive Merchant Delivery Program

#48

Post by mfringel » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 3:50 PM UTC

dpatru wrote: post #38

mfringel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assertion. Platitude, assertion. Rhetorical question.

Please state your disagreement.

Employers shifting externalities onto employees is something that labor law has been created to mitigate for decades.

The fact that Uber has found a loophole (which is being closed quickly) does not make it "okay, because it's consensual".

Also, I have issues with semantically null statements that could have been written by a Markov Chainer that's seeded with text from the Mises Institute, but that's a more personal problem.

Re: Uber Is Testing a Massive Merchant Delivery Program

#49

Post by viscanti » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 4:05 PM UTC

ashark wrote: post #47

dylanjermiah wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're free to work for whoever they want. No one is forcing anyone to drive for Uber, they're doing it voluntarily. Why forcibly stop consensual behaviour?

Freedom of choice comes in degrees, with no sharp divide between free and not free. The freedom of an individual to negotiate with employers exists in a context of wild inequality in negotiating position, information asymmetry, and coordination problems among workers that lead to a race to the bottom (absent collective bargaining or government intervention). I don't know enough about Uber and their workers to comment…

It doesn't seem an issue of workers negotiating with the individual business. You're redefining "freedom of choice" to mean freedom to negotiate with a company. It's clear that the parent meant freedom to choose when/where they work. If there were better alternatives, people would chose that over Uber.

The fact that they aren't choosing other things shows that they're making an informed decision that they believe is best for them given their alternatives. We're free to wonder about if things could be even better for the people who made the choice to work for Uber, which is where some kind of negotiation between workers and Uber would come in, but that seems to miss the point completely. If there were better alternatives provided by any other company, most of the workers would go there.

Re: Uber Is Testing a Massive Merchant Delivery Program

#50

Post by wavefunction » Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 4:08 PM UTC

dzlobin wrote: post #29

codecamper wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then what do they do with the puppies after the 15 minutes are up?

They are puppies from local shelters that they encourage people to adopt.

They should be carting around older dogs which are rarely adopted.

Maybe it's wrong of me but I find Uber hiding behind puppies to be about as despicable as the rest of their actions.