The Steady Rise of Bike Ridership in New York • Hacker News Board

Re: The Steady Rise of Bike Ridership in New York

#41

Post by michael_h » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 5:10 PM UTC

thirsteh wrote: post #34

ams6110 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I passed a car v. cyclist crash this morning on way to work. Cyclist had evidently been riding in the pedistrian crosswalk, against the flow of traffic. Couldn't tell if he had hit a car turning across the walkway, or the car had hit him. Looked like no injuries, though the bicycle was pretty mangled.

That's something that annoys me about bikes in the US vs. Europe: People in Europe are generally taught to obey the same laws as everybody else, whereas US bicyclists, in NYC in particular, just completely wing it. When I first moved here I didn't understand why everybody hated on bicyclists; now, after nearly being hit by a bicycle slamming through a crowded crosswalk at least 10 times, I do. Yes, red lights apply t…

When I bought my first "nice" bike a few years ago, the guy wheeled it out to me and said, "This is a vehicle, so ride it like a vehicle. Yes, even at stop signs." Then he warned me about Escalades.

Re: The Steady Rise of Bike Ridership in New York

#42

Post by u801e » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 5:11 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #27

lisa_henderson wrote: post #21

I bike to work in New York, and I've biked around Berlin, and I would say New York still has a way to go before it catches up with Berlin. The problem that New York faces is that it is embedded in USA society, so it has to face some issues that are not about bikes, but effect bikes. An example would be the reasons people use bike helmets. No one uses bike helmets in Berlin, because Berlin is safe for bicycles, and th…

> No one uses bike helmets in Berlin, because Berlin is safe for bicycles That's not why people don't wear helmets there, and that's not a reason to not wear one. I would have been in a world of hurt if I didn't have a helmet on when I fell. No cars, people, or other moving object were anywhere near me. My tire hit a slippery patch as I was turning, and I went over sideways. I broke my shoulder and my hand, and my he…

> Wear a helmet. They not only save you from dangerous environmental situations, but they save you from yourself.

Given the CPSC test procedure for bicycle helmets, I seriously doubt it:

http://www.helmets.org/cpscstd.htm

>> 1203.15 Positional stability test

Test that the helmet doesn't roll off when a 8.8 lb weight in a guided free fall from a distance of 2 feet strikes the helmet.

>> 1203.16 Dynamic strength of retention system test

Uses the same weight and guided free fall distance.

>> 1203.17 Impact attenuation test

>> (b)(3) A guided free fall of the helmet on a weighted headform from a minimum height of 6.56 ft onto a flat anvil and a guided free fall of the helmet on a weighted headform from a minumum height of 3.94 ft onto a hemispherical and curbstone anvils

Regarding the last test procedure, that would be like testing the helmet on an adult male of average height, where, while standing, suddenly suffered a stroke and fell over. It certainly wouldn't protect you in a crash at speed or with a motor vehicle.

If you want real head protection while riding a bicycle, then you need to wear a motorcycle helmet (preferably one that meets the Snell standard).

Re: The Steady Rise of Bike Ridership in New York

#43

Post by revelation » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 5:14 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #27

lisa_henderson wrote: post #21

I bike to work in New York, and I've biked around Berlin, and I would say New York still has a way to go before it catches up with Berlin. The problem that New York faces is that it is embedded in USA society, so it has to face some issues that are not about bikes, but effect bikes. An example would be the reasons people use bike helmets. No one uses bike helmets in Berlin, because Berlin is safe for bicycles, and th…

> No one uses bike helmets in Berlin, because Berlin is safe for bicycles That's not why people don't wear helmets there, and that's not a reason to not wear one. I would have been in a world of hurt if I didn't have a helmet on when I fell. No cars, people, or other moving object were anywhere near me. My tire hit a slippery patch as I was turning, and I went over sideways. I broke my shoulder and my hand, and my he…

I'm sure this epiphany now has you wear a helmet in your car, where risk of life-threatening head-trauma is significantly higher than when riding a bicycle?

Re: The Steady Rise of Bike Ridership in New York

#44

Post by cynicalkane » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 5:21 PM UTC

revelation wrote: post #43

stronglikedan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one uses bike helmets in Berlin, because Berlin is safe for bicycles That's not why people don't wear helmets there, and that's not a reason to not wear one. I would have been in a world of hurt if I didn't have a helmet on when I fell. No cars, people, or other moving object were anywhere near me. My tire hit a slippery patch as I was turning, and I went over sideways. I broke my shoulder and my hand, and my he…

I'm sure this epiphany now has you wear a helmet in your car, where risk of life-threatening head-trauma is significantly higher than when riding a bicycle?

Uh, the risk of life-threatening head trauma is significantly lower in a car. Cars are the safest form of personal travel.

Re: The Steady Rise of Bike Ridership in New York

#45

Post by cauterized » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 5:28 PM UTC

kosei wrote: post #32

While it's great to see NYC bike ridership up to 21K per weekday, and touted as growing "faster than other modes of transportation", it's misleading when you compare that the MTA has a ridership of 8.6 million daily. Currently that Bike Ridership number is a paltry 0.2% of the overall ridership. So, kudos - and I hope they improve it dramatically, but it has a long way to go, and I'm skeptical of de Blasio's goal of…

At the very least, they'd have to quadruple both the bike lane mileage and the Citibike coverage.

Re: The Steady Rise of Bike Ridership in New York

#46

Post by gamache » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 5:28 PM UTC

cynicalkane wrote: post #44

revelation wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure this epiphany now has you wear a helmet in your car, where risk of life-threatening head-trauma is significantly higher than when riding a bicycle?

Uh, the risk of life-threatening head trauma is significantly lower in a car. Cars are the safest form of personal travel.

Only if you're inside one.

Re: The Steady Rise of Bike Ridership in New York

#47

Post by hkmurakami » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 5:32 PM UTC

u801e wrote: post #42

stronglikedan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one uses bike helmets in Berlin, because Berlin is safe for bicycles That's not why people don't wear helmets there, and that's not a reason to not wear one. I would have been in a world of hurt if I didn't have a helmet on when I fell. No cars, people, or other moving object were anywhere near me. My tire hit a slippery patch as I was turning, and I went over sideways. I broke my shoulder and my hand, and my he…

> Wear a helmet. They not only save you from dangerous environmental situations, but they save you from yourself. Given the CPSC test procedure for bicycle helmets, I seriously doubt it: http://www.helmets.org/cpscstd.htm >> 1203.15 Positional stability test Test that the helmet doesn't roll off when a 8.8 lb weight in a guided free fall from a distance of 2 feet strikes the helmet. >> 1203.16 Dynamic strength of ret…

>Regarding the last test procedure, that would be like testing the helmet on an adult male of average height, where, while standing, suddenly suffered a stroke and fell over

With all due respect, do you ride a bike extensively? Because these exact sort of accidents happen all the time. I've fallen sideways from a stationary position several times over the last 5 years as an avid cyclist when I've had lapses in judgment or focus when declipping from my pedals.

Further, I was struck by a car from behind 2 years ago and lost consciousness, propelled forward several meters, broke several ribs, suffered large abrasions on my back. My helmet suffered dents and scratches, but my head and face were 100% fine. If not for the helmet, I would have 100% suffered from cuts and abrasions to my face (given that my back has permanent scars, this could have easily happened to my face), even without taking into consideration impact protection.

The fact that bicycle helmets don't protect you from every type of accident situation is a ridiculous reason to not wear one.

Re: The Steady Rise of Bike Ridership in New York

#48

Post by hkmurakami » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 5:39 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #23

cauterized wrote: post #5

One thing the article mentions but the headline misses is the need for more and better bike lanes all over the city. De Blasio hasn't been emphasizing this nearly as strongly as Bloomberg did. But the numbers show that replacing one lane of traffic with a protected bike lane can actually ease congestion and increase average car speeds and total throughput (Lafayette St. in Soho is apparently an excellent example of t…

Protected bike lanes would help; unprotected ones just turn into parking spots for UPS, Fedex, police cars and other random vehicles.

I'm a SF resident who was visiting NYC last week, and saw those protected bike lanes for the first time (I lived in NJ a decade ago). Frankly, drivers' attitudes towards bicyclists will be slow to change, and thus the only reasonable course forward seems to be this kind of infrastructure improvement.

As infrastructure improves, more people will consider bicycles as a reasonable transportation alternative, and hopefully increased numbers of cyclists may help driver attitudes change as well.

Re: The Steady Rise of Bike Ridership in New York

#49

Post by cmurf » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 5:45 PM UTC

lisa_henderson wrote: post #21

I bike to work in New York, and I've biked around Berlin, and I would say New York still has a way to go before it catches up with Berlin. The problem that New York faces is that it is embedded in USA society, so it has to face some issues that are not about bikes, but effect bikes. An example would be the reasons people use bike helmets. No one uses bike helmets in Berlin, because Berlin is safe for bicycles, and th…

In most other countries, driving is not a right, it's a privilege, and your dad doesn't qualify as a driving instructor. Everyone learns the same rules of the road, whereas in the U.S. it's totally haphazard.

When I visited Copenhagen, cars, bicycles, pedestrians seemed significantly more on the same page than in any U.S. city (NYC and Denver are examples I have direct experience with). While serious altercations are rare, most people still don't understand that bikes are considered vehicles with the same operator rights and responsibilities as with cars.

Hardly a week goes by, biking in Denver, without a car honking for no reason other than to say "get out of my way" and anytime I have a conversation with the driver they assert with absolute confidence bikes should be on sidewalks, that it's illegal for bikes to be in the street. Ignorance of the law is much more common in the U.S. So that's a huge barrier to "catching up" with any European city.

Re: The Steady Rise of Bike Ridership in New York

#50

Post by harmonicon » Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 5:48 PM UTC

Bike infrastructure is being built. Bike ridership is up, all great news.

However, there remains a fundamental problem. As packed in as NYC is, it is still a huge city designed for automobiles. Many people lives 10, 20 miles away from their jobs.

It is obvious from the picture in the article that many cyclists gear themselves up for a long arduous ride. Unless one is into biking or exercise most people is just not up to that kind of ride. I do not think a 20 mile ride is what the average cyclist in Amesterdam or Berlin imagine their commute to be.