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Lumen – A micro-framework by Laravel

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Re: Lumen – A micro-framework by Laravel

#41

Post by look_lookatme »

cweagans wrote: post #34
pyre wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've talked to people doing large-scale deployments in PHP that complain about things like memory-leaks, etc in the language, so I'm not entirely convinced that PHP is really an excellent language (and runtime) that just happens to get a bad rap.

I'm a PHP developer that works for a major media company. We do large scale deployments, and I'd like to say that PHP is a terrible language that gets a bad rap. It's getting better, and it's already 1000000x better than the PHP4 days, but it's still not a nice language. It's not a nice runtime. The only thing nice about it is that a zillion people and their dogs all know it and it's relatively easy to deploy.

Do you use an off the shelf framework or CMS?

Re: Lumen – A micro-framework by Laravel

#42

Post by pyre »

vectorpush wrote: post #35
pyre wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've talked to people doing large-scale deployments in PHP that complain about things like memory-leaks, etc in the language, so I'm not entirely convinced that PHP is really an excellent language (and runtime) that just happens to get a bad rap.

> I've talked to people doing large-scale deployments in PHP that complain about things like memory-leaks, etc in the language What does it mean for a language to have memory leaks? Are you talking about a problem specific to the PHP runtime or common PHP idioms that lead to leaky code? A specific example would be helpful as I've never known PHP to be particularly vulnerable to memory-leak bugs (at least not any more…

> What does it mean for a language to have memory leaks?

I'm not embroiled in the PHP-world, so I don't know how many alternate PHP runtimes exist, but I presume that the default PHP runtime itself was being referenced. Seeing as for a long time there was a single runtime paired with the language (I'm 99% sure that PHP4 didn't have alternate runtimes), I think that equating bugs in the runtime with bugs in the language is something that happens even if technically they are separate things.

> Your comment seems to simply cast doubt without much substance.

And your comment seems needlessly defensive. I made a comment about general sentiment that I've gotten from people that have actual working knowledge of large-scale PHP deployments. I'm sorry that in the middle of the conversation I didn't start immediately interrogating these people asking why they haven't filed bug reports if there are memory leaks.

Also, is it devoid of substance if I'm basically stating that I've talked to people "in the trenches" (and presumably know what they are talking about) who don't have the opinion that PHP is some beautiful, but misunderstood language that gets a bad rap?

> Also, what's the substance behind the "etc" in your comment? I'm not really sure what naturally follows in the sequence of "memory-leaks and so on...."

Maybe I should have phrased that as "(e.g. memory leaks)" to show that memory leaks weren't the only complaint, but my memory fails me on what the other complaints were.

Re: Lumen – A micro-framework by Laravel

#43

Post by tux »

xrstf wrote: post #37
wesray wrote: post #7

The drop in functionality right into the full framework is fantastic. Really like the ability to write API's with much less overhead, which was a factor that came into play for me recently. Nicely done Mr. Otwell.

The same holds true for Silex[1], the Symfony Components-based micro framework. Silex and Lumen look very similar (not only because Laraval/Lumen use Sf Components as well), not only because both use (just as Laravel) Sf Components. Slim 3 seems to move in the same direction of modern PHP frameworks, where you return a response from your controller, instead of setting up some global state (the main thing I don't like…

I've used "Silex" and "Slim" in various small projects and API's. Then I found PhalconPHP.com I prefer using Micro+Volt now. New version 2.0 will be released on April 17th, 2015 So check it out, you may like "volt" template engine more :-)

Re: Lumen – A micro-framework by Laravel

#44

Post by xorcist »

vectorpush wrote: post #35
pyre wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've talked to people doing large-scale deployments in PHP that complain about things like memory-leaks, etc in the language, so I'm not entirely convinced that PHP is really an excellent language (and runtime) that just happens to get a bad rap.

> I've talked to people doing large-scale deployments in PHP that complain about things like memory-leaks, etc in the language What does it mean for a language to have memory leaks? Are you talking about a problem specific to the PHP runtime or common PHP idioms that lead to leaky code? A specific example would be helpful as I've never known PHP to be particularly vulnerable to memory-leak bugs (at least not any more…

PHP the runtime was built with a reload on every page load in mind, so a lot of cleaning up simply didn't need to happen. If it's in the runtime or how it's used doesn't matter.

It was a big deal when transitioning to the FPM runtime. That's why persistent PHP runtimes like FPM still have the option to completely reinitialize itself after a set number of pageviews. It's a bit like fixing leaks by rebooting, but it's fast enough not to be noticeable.

Re: Lumen – A micro-framework by Laravel

#45

Post by [deleted] »

pyre wrote: post #27
seandavidfisher wrote: post #21

Looks really interesting. PHP may not be the "hip" language to use (although it's getting better), but it's so popular and accessible that disregarding it as a legitimate option for new projects is myopic.

I've talked to people doing large-scale deployments in PHP that complain about things like memory-leaks, etc in the language, so I'm not entirely convinced that PHP is really an excellent language (and runtime) that just happens to get a bad rap.

[deleted]

Re: Lumen – A micro-framework by Laravel

#46

Post by debaserab2 »

pyre wrote: post #42
vectorpush wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've talked to people doing large-scale deployments in PHP that complain about things like memory-leaks, etc in the language What does it mean for a language to have memory leaks? Are you talking about a problem specific to the PHP runtime or common PHP idioms that lead to leaky code? A specific example would be helpful as I've never known PHP to be particularly vulnerable to memory-leak bugs (at least not any more…

> What does it mean for a language to have memory leaks? I'm not embroiled in the PHP-world, so I don't know how many alternate PHP runtimes exist, but I presume that the default PHP runtime itself was being referenced. Seeing as for a long time there was a single runtime paired with the language (I'm 99% sure that PHP4 didn't have alternate runtimes), I think that equating bugs in the runtime with bugs in the langua…

I'd say writing off an entire language with a vague anecdote is worth at least a little scrutiny or clarification.

Re: Lumen – A micro-framework by Laravel

#49

Post by conradfr »

smt88 wrote: post #38
pyre wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've talked to people doing large-scale deployments in PHP that complain about things like memory-leaks, etc in the language, so I'm not entirely convinced that PHP is really an excellent language (and runtime) that just happens to get a bad rap.

I wouldn't be surprised if those memory leaks were due to an older version of PHP (GC was recently improved a lot to clean up circular references) or a poorly-written framework, which most of them are. Some people also don't understand that arrays of large data have to be wrapped in objects or explicitly passed by reference in many situations to avoid duplicating them in memory. I've used PHP a few times in the past…

> Some people also don't understand that arrays of large data have to be wrapped in objects or explicitly passed by reference in many situations to avoid duplicating them in memory.

IIRC arrays are always passed by reference and only duplicated if you modify the data inside the called function (if not passed with '&' of course) ?

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