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Saudi Arabia’s Plan to Extend the Age of Oil

bloomberg.com

41–50 of 136 posts

Re: Saudi Arabia’s Plan to Extend the Age of Oil

#41
post #25

... and why do we have to follow? The sooner the world moves away from oil the better.

Haven't we been moving away from oil for at least 40 years, since the U.S. oil crisis in the 1970's? Carter put solar energy in the White House. Are we on the 100 plan to move away from oil?

> Haven't we been moving away from oil for at least 40 years, since the U.S. oil crisis in the 1970's?

That crisis affected a bit more than just the U.S.

Re: Saudi Arabia’s Plan to Extend the Age of Oil

#42
post #35
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven't we been moving away from oil for at least 40 years, since the U.S. oil crisis in the 1970's? Carter put solar energy in the White House. Are we on the 100 plan to move away from oil?

> Carter put solar energy in the White House. Carter put solar cells (PV) on the White House. Reagan had them removed. Obama recently installed them again, but it's a mere 10kW, IIRC.

Not quite. Carter's White House solar panels were thermal.

“a generation from now, this solar heater can either be a curiosity, a museum piece, an example of a road not taken, or it can be a small part of one of the greatest and most exciting adventures ever undertaken by the American people; harnessing the power of the Sun to enrich our lives as we move away from our crippling dependence on foreign oil.”

During Reagan's administration, the panels were moved to Unity College in Maine where they heated water on the campus.

Re: Saudi Arabia’s Plan to Extend the Age of Oil

#43
Interesting throughout. As I understand it, this policy is a tool for buying the Saudi ruling class time to reshape the society into somthing that is compatible with and competitive in the future, yet saudi-arabic.

Such Top-to-Bottom approaches are often loathed upon but I'd say good for them. Still, at some point the money spent on its citizens well-being will have to exceed the money spent on mistreating them. How many educated Saudis does it take to stand up for the whip-lashed ones?

Betting that transformation-process on the oil-market seems like a risky business to me.

Re: Saudi Arabia’s Plan to Extend the Age of Oil

#44
post #19

Seems that nobody is getting peak oil right. The rise of the North Dakota shale is the confirmation of that theory. Also Saudi Arabia is doomed. The kingdom will be collateral damage in the poaching war (its not hot, its not cold) ... to hit russia, the US is doing its best to bring Iran back online. US is self sufficient so they don't fear supply crunch, Europe is moving fast with renewable energy ... and we have ni…

> US is self sufficient so they don't fear supply crunch The USA is a net importer of crude oil and petroleum products. At a level of 5 million barrels per day. http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mt...

Majority of US imports come from Canada. American reliance on Middle Eastern oil is small.

America is down to 27% imports: http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=32&t=6

America imports roughly three times as much from Canada as it does Saudi Arabia: http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

America currently has 690 million barrels in strategic reserve (It's silly to assume that Canadian imports would ever be cut off, but if the 3 million barrels elsewise got cut, we could potentially last for years on the reserve).

That 690 million barrel reserve doesn't count the nation stock of oil. The United States is experiencing a massive oil glut with the oil inventories currently at an 80 year high (and sitting near maximum national capacity) at 482.4 million barrels of inventory. http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2015/apr/13/tanks-full-of...

So yeah, the US imports about 5,000,000 barrels a day (strong majority of that from Canada), but has over 1,000,000,000 barrels of oil stored inside our borders as inventory and reserve.

Re: Saudi Arabia’s Plan to Extend the Age of Oil

#45
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Carter put solar energy in the White House. Carter put solar cells (PV) on the White House. Reagan had them removed. Obama recently installed them again, but it's a mere 10kW, IIRC.

Not quite. Carter's White House solar panels were thermal. “a generation from now, this solar heater can either be a curiosity, a museum piece, an example of a road not taken, or it can be a small part of one of the greatest and most exciting adventures ever undertaken by the American people; harnessing the power of the Sun to enrich our lives as we move away from our crippling dependence on foreign oil.” During Reag…

I think we're running into the weeds. The point is that we've been trying to move off oil for 40 years. At this rate it's going to be a very long time before the job is done.

In fact, we might run out of oil before we actually replace it.

Re: Saudi Arabia’s Plan to Extend the Age of Oil

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have to go along with this plan. We could raise taxes on oil and drive SA into the ground. The world would be a better place without oil being part of our energy production.

This would also raise prices on gas and petroleum products (such as lubricants, cosmetics, plastics) on Americans which probably isn't a good idea given the current state of affairs for the low and middle classes.

So give poor Americans more money. Then they can choose whether to use that on petrol or not.

Re: Saudi Arabia’s Plan to Extend the Age of Oil

#47
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While also figuring out how to make fossil fuel safer for the environment. Don't get me wrong, solar/wind and especially nuclear are great, but it's gonna be a loooong time before we're completely rid of gas, coal and oil. There's so much of it and they're all so energy-dense and/or cheap that humans are gonna use them either until our planet turns into Venus or we figure out ways to reduce/eliminate those emissions.…

Another thing people seem to forget is that plastic requires oil. It's relatively easy to move from gas to electric cars, I don't know of an alternative for plastic production however.

The chemical industry requires oil and gas as both a raw material and a source of industrial heat. The fossil-derived industrial heat may be replaced by electricity produced from various sources, including nuclear. Secondly, if electricity becomes relatively abundant, that could create an economy completely independent on fossil fuel, since you can convert just about any generic organic matter (and ultimately from CO2 and water) into chemical products.

Re: Saudi Arabia’s Plan to Extend the Age of Oil

#48
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world will move away from oil when the alternatives are more economical. Any other conclusion is magical thinking.

But this can be (and is) manipulated by government policy and social dynamics. The externalities of the fossil fuel energy binge are becoming increasingly impossible to ignore, which is depressing demand.

Do you think Africa, China, India all think like that? Most of whom are living on or below the poverty line? They'll be driving old put-puts and crappy desel trucks, tractors and cars for tens of years to come. How long before second/third hand electric cars are being exported in tens or hundreds of thousands to these countries? 50 years?

No one I know drives a NEW car, and I live in the UK. We all wait for 2nd/3rd hand cars to get to us.

Re: Saudi Arabia’s Plan to Extend the Age of Oil

#49
post #20

Does a documentary or any in-depth information exist for the King Abdullah University of Science and Technology? I found the details of this university fascinating. FTA: Heavily armed guards on land and at sea protect the facility, where unveiled women study and work side by side with men, undisturbed by the religious police who patrol Saudi cities. Research there is aimed at scientific and commercial breakthroughs u…

The irony, when necessary, islamic laws don't apply because you need to do scientific break throughs.

The bigger headache is keeping those educated people in SA, a country unlikely to reform socially very much to accomodate them, let alone the competition for skilled people in general. The social exclusion of women alone is a great drag on productivity.

Re: Saudi Arabia’s Plan to Extend the Age of Oil

#50
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. is not self sufficient at current production. The U.S. produces almost 9 million barrels a day and uses almost 19 million. The U.S. could be self sufficient but the permit restrictions on shallow water drilling as well as other political issues make self sufficiency a ways off. As far as Europe and renewables, I think the perception is far more positive than the reality. Windmills and solar provide a very sm…

Indeed. Europe is still heavily reliant on coal and petroleum. Anti-nuclear crowd is incredibly robust and they are limiting expansion in numerous places. Windmills, solar and hydro are not capable of replacing fossil fuels without the help of nuclear, unless we want to cover all of Europe in windmills and solar panels. But we are moving in the right direction, but Europe is not doing as well as we like to pretend.

Not reliant on petroleum for energy, only transport. Gas (in the European sense, not the American one) is a large amount. Renewable is 15% at present.
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