A Life Apart: The Toll of Obesity • Hacker News Board

Re: A Life Apart: The Toll of Obesity

#41

Post by wongarsu » Fri, Apr 03, 2015, 1:46 PM UTC

pantalaimon wrote: post #29

Thriptic wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how did you get to be 300lb in the first place? I never paid attention to what I ate, I ate until I was stuffed, I drank way too much beer, and I never exercised. Basically I was lazy and didn't give a shit. This was the normal lifestyle of most people I knew who were 16-22. The ramifications of being fat were not enough to overcome the perceptions of the difficulty of dieting and exercise I gleaned from most pe…

> I never paid attention to what I ate 'Normal' (non-overweight) people usually don't have to pay attention to what they eat either, still they don't gain weight.

I think most non-overweight people do pay attention to what we eat. Most of us don't count calories, but we do use heuristics. For example I wouldn't eat three normal-sized pizzas a day. I could over the course of a day and it would be delicious, but I know that it wouldn't be good for me.

Re: A Life Apart: The Toll of Obesity

#42

Post by BSousa » Fri, Apr 03, 2015, 1:49 PM UTC

riffraff wrote: post #6

obesity, even if not at this levels, is an understated problem, and seems to me the US is one of the worst hit. If you can, I'd recommend watching "Fed Up" [0], a documentary which tries to show that the problem is a bit more complex than just people being lazy ("light" food being effectively worse, complete lack of food education, lobbying at it's worse etc). As many documentaries, it has a rather clear agenda, but…

I'm on the opposite camp and think Fed Up is not a good movie to watch and seems the author (Kuric I think) had a bone to grind mostly with the fast food and shitty food industry.

I remember a scene about a mother going to the store, and buying 'light' oreos/chips/other stuff, and giving that to their kids instead of the regular ones to their kids and then complaining he didn't lose weight and taking as a conclusion that 'dieting' and 'exercise' doesn't really work. Never considered that maybe a carrot stick or an apple would be better, she would just buy diet soda/cookies/chips.

Re: A Life Apart: The Toll of Obesity

#43

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Apr 03, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

SixSigma wrote: post #36

jere wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously have a high metabolism and abundant energy and willpower. Otherwise you wouldn't say "dieting was not difficult" or it only takes "a bit of time each day." Not overeating requires willpower every waking moment... forever. This is sort of like someone who makes $500,000 a year claiming that getting out of debt is easy because they were able to do it after they finally stopped buying mansions and sports c…

> You obviously have a high metabolism such a tired excuse 96% of the population is in the range of 1680-2320kcal daily http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-peop...

That's a huge range that demonstrates the point you are trying to contradict. Someone on the low end of that range will gain between a quarter of a pound and almost a full pound a day on the same diet as soneone on the top end, with a similar activity pattern and assuming similar absorption (which is an additional source of variation besides metabolism; these are probably combined in what most people think of as "metabolism" since people seem to tend to think of it in end-to-end terms, though technically metabolism is more limited.)

Re: A Life Apart: The Toll of Obesity

#44

Post by cko » Fri, Apr 03, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

BSousa wrote: post #37

Thriptic wrote: post #11

Personally, I feel like the media frequently tries to over complicate the issue of obesity and make excuses for people who can't lose weight. The individual depicted here clearly has underlying psychological and substance abuse problems, but in no way is he reflective of the general population of obese individuals. Baring psychological issues, it's really not hard at all to pick a diet and adhere to it. It literally…

It really isn't and I say this as someone that never went over 180 pounds and is usually around 12% body fat. Just the 'lifting 3 times a week' will take out a lot of the working population out of the picture. Why? If include commute to gym, working out time and shower/etc, we are looking at least 6 hours per week. Add the gym costs/going to the gym costs and you have maybe 100 bucks a month as a cost. We are fortuna…

I agree that it's not easy to overcome the inertia (the psychological aspects). I've been skinny all my life and I still have to motivate myself to exercise.

You don't necessarily need to "go to the gym" though. There are lots of bodyweight exercises that can produce great results. Not just pushups, either:

http://www.beastskills.com/tutorials/

http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/building-an-olympic-body-...

Some of those exercises are very difficult - the only one I can do is the single leg squat (pistol). But pullups, dips, pistols, sprinting, kettlebells (cheap one-time purchase) can take you a long way.

Re: A Life Apart: The Toll of Obesity

#45

Post by revelation » Fri, Apr 03, 2015, 1:55 PM UTC

pantalaimon wrote: post #29

Thriptic wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how did you get to be 300lb in the first place? I never paid attention to what I ate, I ate until I was stuffed, I drank way too much beer, and I never exercised. Basically I was lazy and didn't give a shit. This was the normal lifestyle of most people I knew who were 16-22. The ramifications of being fat were not enough to overcome the perceptions of the difficulty of dieting and exercise I gleaned from most pe…

> I never paid attention to what I ate 'Normal' (non-overweight) people usually don't have to pay attention to what they eat either, still they don't gain weight.

Blessing and a curse. I think very few people are observant and rational enough to be able to spot very very gradual change. Hoarders don't start with a room full of crap, it just accumulates over years and only bit by bit, very easy to rationalize to yourself.

Suddenly you find yourselves with a new job and are now driving to work, and week by week you gain weight until you wake up one day and think fuck.

Re: A Life Apart: The Toll of Obesity

#46

Post by mkr-hn » Fri, Apr 03, 2015, 1:55 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #3

I sincerely don't understand people like that. Sure you can ignore your physical health, eat too much and become obese (I did so), you can stay obese even, although weightloss isn't that fucking difficult (spoiler-warning: track your food, stay within your calories limit and perhaps move a bit more). But grow to be 300, let alone 600 pounds? To the point where you can't even got to the bathroom so your mother can was…

I think it takes a special kind of delusion to be aware of obesity maps with clear trends and still think it's 100% personal choice.

http://www.maxmasnick.com/2011/11/15/obesity_by_county/

Re: A Life Apart: The Toll of Obesity

#47

Post by colomon » Fri, Apr 03, 2015, 1:58 PM UTC

BSousa wrote: post #37

Thriptic wrote: post #11

Personally, I feel like the media frequently tries to over complicate the issue of obesity and make excuses for people who can't lose weight. The individual depicted here clearly has underlying psychological and substance abuse problems, but in no way is he reflective of the general population of obese individuals. Baring psychological issues, it's really not hard at all to pick a diet and adhere to it. It literally…

It really isn't and I say this as someone that never went over 180 pounds and is usually around 12% body fat. Just the 'lifting 3 times a week' will take out a lot of the working population out of the picture. Why? If include commute to gym, working out time and shower/etc, we are looking at least 6 hours per week. Add the gym costs/going to the gym costs and you have maybe 100 bucks a month as a cost. We are fortuna…

For what it's worth, when I lost weight I was exercising for 90 minutes a day 6 days a week (half of that hard exercise, half more casual) AND carefully watching everything I ate. The idea that this is "easy" is completely cracked. I could only do it because I was self-employed and single.

I gained a bit back after getting married, and I've gained 10 pounds a year on average since my son was born.

Re: A Life Apart: The Toll of Obesity

#48

Post by jere » Fri, Apr 03, 2015, 1:59 PM UTC

SixSigma wrote: post #36

jere wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously have a high metabolism and abundant energy and willpower. Otherwise you wouldn't say "dieting was not difficult" or it only takes "a bit of time each day." Not overeating requires willpower every waking moment... forever. This is sort of like someone who makes $500,000 a year claiming that getting out of debt is easy because they were able to do it after they finally stopped buying mansions and sports c…

> You obviously have a high metabolism such a tired excuse 96% of the population is in the range of 1680-2320kcal daily http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-peop...

The top and bottom of that range is an entire meal difference. Or put another way, if two people on opposite ends of that range eat 2320kcal daily, we expect the person with the lower metabolism to gain 50lb a year. Awesome.

This is where you come in and say, "Oh well, the person with the lower metabolism should eat less." So now the person with the lower metabolism has to eat a meal's worth of food less than the other person just to maintain their weight to say nothing of losing it. And I'd wager the person providing their body with 1600kcal is probably feeling sluggish and depressed all day. Which is why I include willpower.

Re: A Life Apart: The Toll of Obesity

#49

Post by Thriptic » Fri, Apr 03, 2015, 2:02 PM UTC

jere wrote: post #31

Thriptic wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how did you get to be 300lb in the first place? I never paid attention to what I ate, I ate until I was stuffed, I drank way too much beer, and I never exercised. Basically I was lazy and didn't give a shit. This was the normal lifestyle of most people I knew who were 16-22. The ramifications of being fat were not enough to overcome the perceptions of the difficulty of dieting and exercise I gleaned from most pe…

You obviously have a high metabolism and abundant energy and willpower. Otherwise you wouldn't say "dieting was not difficult" or it only takes "a bit of time each day." Not overeating requires willpower every waking moment... forever. This is sort of like someone who makes $500,000 a year claiming that getting out of debt is easy because they were able to do it after they finally stopped buying mansions and sports c…

> You obviously have a high metabolism

Not particularly. If I had a high metabolism I would not have put on the weight easily in the first place.

> and abundant energy and willpower. Not overeating requires willpower every waking moment... forever.

In my opinion, successful dieting isn't a willpower issue, it's a systems issue. I have designed a straight forward system which works for me: Every morning I wake up and plan my meals in accordance with my diet plan. I then only eat those meals. I schedule in time to go the gym and follow my schedule. When I arrive I do my prescribed exercise routine and I leave. There are no decisions to be made on food choices or exercise throughout the day because I have already made the decisions without any internal conflict before I start my day. The emotional component is completely abstracted away and very little willpower is necessary to maintain adherence.

I think this is one of the biggest problems with people's mentality on dieting and getting in shape. They think they need to force themselves to be adherent against their will. In reality you only need to discover and set up systems which facilitate good behavior. There is very little willpower involved on a day to day basis if this is done, and in fact, the more success you have the more you will want to adhere.

Re: A Life Apart: The Toll of Obesity

#50

Post by 67726e » Fri, Apr 03, 2015, 2:03 PM UTC

mercer wrote: post #30

67726e wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, it is that easy. Similar to Thriptic, 6'3" male, probably about 250 at my worst. Solution? Hit the gym at least 3 times a week, stop eating like a glutton. Dropped to about 205. Moved in with my girlfriend who had shitty eating habits and encouraged me to not go to the gym, and lo and behold I put much of that weight back on. Broke up, started eating less, working out more. Suddenly I'm getting closer and clo…

> Really, it is that easy. [...] > Broke up, started eating less, working out more. > Around the time I started my first bout exercising and eating normally, I worked with basically an entire office of developers who were fitness nuts. Guys who can run a 10K faster than I could dream at my height, and lift nearly 2 of me. So you broke up with a (in this context) toxic girlfriend, and found yourself surrounded by fitn…

I possibly wrote my response in an unclear manner, but I found myself surrounded by health nuts and got in shape (that part was to back my assertion), then subsequently got out of shape with said toxic girlfriend, then started getting back into shape.

I guess what I'm getting at is, sans biological issues, all one needs is to exercise and to watch what they eat. Hell, watching what you eat is very important regardless. Of course being a good developer, I realize there are edge-cases out the ass. We're people, not machines.

All that said, the mental aspect is always gonna be the toughest part to overcome. You have to be willing to break the habits, and commit to your change. Not everyone has the mental acuity to a) comprehend their shortcomings and b) commit to fixing them. How much of that blame lies on the individual and how much on upbringing/society/etc. is up in the air, largely on a person-to-person basis. I'm just lucky enough to have grown up around enough toxic activities to be able to see things for how they are, and to have the acuity/strength to change things if need be.