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American students head to Germany for free college

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Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#41

Post by galfarragem »

Htsthbjig wrote: post #24

Education in Europe is not free. You pay with your qualifications. If your university grades are not good enough, you go out fast. I studied engineering in Europe. When I went to Boston or London to work it was like I was the boss or something because I was much better prepared than Americans or British. But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in a…

I was much better prepared than Americans or British. But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in any field.

Great comment. Anyway I will never leave Europe for US/Canada/Australia[1]. I've visited some family in the latter and I feel that the advantages of these countries are not enough to make me live there. Exchanging peace of mind and a huge decrease of life quality for some extra probabilities of being rich and extra consumption doen't worth IMO.

Also have in mind that Germany != Europe

Edit: [1] I'm sure these 3 countries are very different between themselves (I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings), but they are still "new world" countries, where the main goal of voluntary "colonizers" was/is getting rich and be able to consume more than in their native countries. This common goal leads to a lot of similarities between them as, for example, the urbanism: suburbs is a "new world" invention and this will always imply a common lifestyle (car dependency, malls, ..).

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#42

Post by more_original »

drvd wrote: post #18
tsotha wrote: post #2

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

Germans are not so obsessed about not paying taxes like e.g. Americans or Swiss. Nobody likes to pay taxes and everybody complains about the high taxes. But I think (actually hope!) that Germans understand (if only unconsciously) that happiness is much more depending on getting old without fear of poverty, knowing to be treated if ill, being able to go safely outside anytime anywhere, not dropping out of society if b…

I'm German and I'm happy to pay taxes. You do get something for everyone in return (infrastructure, education, some social security (which has been eroded, unfortunately), health care, etc).

Also, I studied in the UK and my tuition fees have been payed by the UK government. So it seems only fair to invite others to study in Germany.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#43

Post by owen_griffiths »

adventured wrote: post #22
jacalata wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: >Germany wants these international students here, even though their taxpayers foot the bill. >“Germany is not a country that's growing,” Malone says. “Its population is not growing. They need people, they need immigrants. They want to be a migration country.” >Think about it this way: it’s a global game of collecting talent. All of these students are the trading cards, and the collectors are countri…

I completely get the premise of drawing talent. I don't agree with the concerns over population numbers itself. You see this fear from Japan, Germany, and much of Europe. Entering into an age that will be dominated by robotics, greater general automation, artificial intelligence, etc., having more people across the board will not be a net benefit. Germany is worrying about this at exactly the wrong time. Germany has…

"Germany has vastly expanded their economy since 1970, while adding zero additional people"

It's a different kettle of fish when more of the people are retired and living on generous tax-payer pensions, and less are working.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#44

Post by r3m6 »

stfu wrote: post #30

As far as I know this has been mostly about boosting "diversity" quotas at German Universities in order to perform better in international rankings. Previously this had been done by rising the amount of students coming from low-income regions (e.g. ex-Russian territory, Asia), so it is certainly a welcome change to see US students making use of that system.

How about: "...to improve academic overall performance" instead of "... in order to perform better in international rankings."

Diversity has proven benefits in many cases, I see it in my daily work. It is much more than just a number in a ranking.

> low-income regions (e.g. ex-Russian territory, Asia)

Asia? Low-income? These times are gone in many places. You need to update your knowledge. Diversity in your workplace could help :-)

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#45

Post by brazzy »

stfu wrote: post #30

As far as I know this has been mostly about boosting "diversity" quotas at German Universities in order to perform better in international rankings. Previously this had been done by rising the amount of students coming from low-income regions (e.g. ex-Russian territory, Asia), so it is certainly a welcome change to see US students making use of that system.

Bullshit. University has been tuition-free in Germany for decades, except for some states for a few years recently.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#46

Post by DrinkWater »

I would have killed to get the chance to study in the US.

American students are far more complex and broad in their knowledge. And that's a very good thing you shouldn't underestimate. It helps a lot in your career.

Germany loves hierarchy and "conservative" thinking. And that is reflected in every aspect of society, even academic education. The main focus is to produce people that Germany needs. We have a shitload of "Fachidioten" here. That's a good thing, and also a bad thing.

tl;dr If you want to reach for the stars in your career, study somewhere else.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#47

Post by purplelobster »

doyoulikeworms wrote: post #29
aikah wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is how could that expensive US education could possibly make sense for americans? In Europe,in most countries, education is virtually free, just look at the cost of law school or med school in France or Belgium for instance. It's what $500 dollars a year at most? Of course there are plenty of private schools in Europe, but even these are usually half the cost of American ones. I graduated in computer sci…

Public university used to be cheap. In the 1960's, tuition & fees at a UC school was less than $2000 (2015 dollars) per year. In the 1950's, it was less than $750 per year.[1][2] Today, tuition & fees at a UC will cost you $15,000 per year. In order to completely pay for tuition and fees, the state of California would have to increase revenue $3 billion per year. Or increase tax revenues by just 3%.[1][3] I, as a cit…

The thing is, PPP is only for things you have to actually buy. Where I live, salaries and PPP is lower than in the US where I lived before. But it's not that simple. Does PPP take into account that I got my 5 year education for free? Actually I received roughly $400/month to go to university. Which also means I don't need a college fund for my kids. Does it reflect that health care is free and I don't have to even think about it anymore? Does it reflect that I now have an actual pension, with 25% on top of my regular pay is paid into my future pension? Does it reflect that I now have 6 weeks vacation instead of 3? Does it reflect that if I have a child, I (as a father) can stay home with the baby for a year if I'd like? Does it reflect that daycare is heavily subsidised to the point I don't have to care about that either? Does it reflect that I don't have "at will" employment anymore, and can't just be let go in a day? Etc etc etc.

My point is, it's very difficult to compare the economic realities in different countries. There are whole categories of expenses that just do not exist in many western European countries. That said, I'm sure if you add everything up, Silicon Valley is the place to be for single, healthy, smart engineers. But that's a pretty narrow set of the population.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#48

Post by ahomescu1 »

doyoulikeworms wrote: post #29
aikah wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is how could that expensive US education could possibly make sense for americans? In Europe,in most countries, education is virtually free, just look at the cost of law school or med school in France or Belgium for instance. It's what $500 dollars a year at most? Of course there are plenty of private schools in Europe, but even these are usually half the cost of American ones. I graduated in computer sci…

Public university used to be cheap. In the 1960's, tuition & fees at a UC school was less than $2000 (2015 dollars) per year. In the 1950's, it was less than $750 per year.[1][2] Today, tuition & fees at a UC will cost you $15,000 per year. In order to completely pay for tuition and fees, the state of California would have to increase revenue $3 billion per year. Or increase tax revenues by just 3%.[1][3] I, as a cit…

> Sure, I'd take lower taxes if Californian kids had to pay just a couple thousand more to college than French kids. But $14k more? Insanity. Raise my taxes please.

Do the numbers really come out in favor of raising taxes? Another commenter gave the 3% required rate for the tax increase. Would a student actually be better off paying 3% extra taxes for the rest of his/her life, as opposed to paying 15k/year for only 4 years (I'm asking from a numbers perspective)?

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#49

Post by randunel »

lentil_soup wrote: post #39
Htsthbjig wrote: post #24

Education in Europe is not free. You pay with your qualifications. If your university grades are not good enough, you go out fast. I studied engineering in Europe. When I went to Boston or London to work it was like I was the boss or something because I was much better prepared than Americans or British. But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in a…

"I studied engineering in Europe. When I went to Boston or London to work it was like I was the boss or something because I was much better prepared than Americans or British." What do you mean by "I studied engineering in Europe"? London is in Europe.

I work in London. The natives here consider the UK as a separate entity from Europe. They talk about the mainland as Europe, and compare themselves to "Europeans", not to "other Europeans". This is the British culture of "us vs them", or "we are too good to be associated with you" that I live in now :P

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#50

Post by th0br0 »

wongarsu wrote: post #19
tsotha wrote: post #2

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

According to the article there are about 100 American Students at the University of Cologne. That should be about 1% of the students. Having 1% more students more who pay exactly as much as domestic students isn't something that concerns me as German taxpayer, even if there would be no benefit for us. If I would have a problem with our budget there would be much bigger fish to fry.

The University of Cologne has a rather high number of students that are only enrolled there for the Semesterticket (public transportation ticket valid in most of North-Rhine Westfalia) and as such, the official number is slightly below 50000 students if I recall correctly. Compared to that, the 100 students are just 0,2%. The number of "active" students is around 20k I think - so the ratio is still significantly below 1%
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