[deleted]
Messaging apps shouldn't make money – Pavel Durov and Telegram
41–50 of 75 posts
Re: Messaging apps shouldn't make money – Pavel Durov and Telegram
#42Just the opposite. The free software movement has led to apps and programs where the users are the product, not the customer, and companies bend over backwards for advertisers. The companies have no incentive to care about your privacy, just your data. Paid messaging apps, however (at least until they get acquired by advertising companies like Facebook), give companies incentives to service their customers first, and…
It seems you missed this chunk of the article: Will he continue to bankroll the business -- or does he see revenue opportunities? "We will become financially sustainable at some point," he says. "It will most likely involve third-party paid apps built on the Telegram platform."
How do you collect rent on an open platform?
Re: Messaging apps shouldn't make money – Pavel Durov and Telegram
#43> "We're trying to create a new type of IT company, one that never focuses on maximising profits, but instead provides value to society," This is dreadful. The Free software movement has existed for decades and Telegram brings nothing new to the table that Google hadn't already a decade ago (open yet crippled protocol, proprietary servers). There is nothing new here, besides the fact that Telegram basically makes no…
XMPP have troubles with synchronizing chats between clients, with push notifications, with user-friendly mobile clients. I like XMPP, I did set up my own server, but I finally abandoned it. It's usable only with one client, preferably on desktop.
>synchronizing chats between clients,
The Carbons XEP[0] is now fairly widely supported and does exactly this.
>user-friendly mobile clients.
Conversations[1] is excellent and is free software.
>push notifications
The centralized system of push notifactions on Android and iOS is not yet supported, it's true, but XMPP with its extensions has pretty good support for battery-constrained devices with intermittent network connections.
I use XMPP across multiple devices with my own server to communicate to other people running their own server and it works great. Setting up your own server is extremely easy ("apt-get install prosody" works out of the box on Debian; stay away from ejabberd which is a pain) and I highly recommend it.
[0] http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0280.html
[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.siacs.conve...
Re: Messaging apps shouldn't make money – Pavel Durov and Telegram
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who pays for e-mail?
Google and every other company that invests the immense time and money required to keep it clear of spam. Email without a large spam filtering infrastructure is unusable.
I used email before there were infrastructure-based spam filters. It was very usable with client-based spam filters. You can't do encrypted email without either a whitelisting system or client-based spam filters.
Re: Messaging apps shouldn't make money – Pavel Durov and Telegram
#45This raises the obvious question, then who is going to pay for them?
Who pays for e-mail?
Interesting question. Anyone and everyone.
I may host my own email server or I might pay someone to host it. Or the government could host it, or my university could host it. Or I could get it for free by agreeing to be served some ads.
But who pays for it doesn't matter. I can send you an email even if we use very different providers (from the point of view of both technology and payment). For messaging I don't see this yet.
I feel like XMPP was supposed to be the chosen one. I had a google account but chatted to my gmail contacts through my self-hosted jabber server. I wonder if this new generation of messaging apps will get to that point anytime soon.
Re: Messaging apps shouldn't make money – Pavel Durov and Telegram
#46I wish there was something like Bitcoin for messaging. Users need a better way to prove their identities (or hide them, depending on the situation) and be able to verify peers. The current hierarchical security system is probably destined to require money, but the free alternatives make me uncomfortable because they tend to need private keys.
What I really want is an open version of Skype where the private key can always be generated by the user's mind, overcomes all the limitations like NAT that make users second class netizens, has no central tracker, and (optionally, but possibly required to work around the limitations) allows a certain amount of traffic to be forwarded like Tor.
I don't see how we can have a conversation about who pays for messaging when the underlying infrastructure for truly secure online communication hasn't yet gone mainstream. I don't really trust Freenet or Tor and can't quite figure out how come, so maybe we could start there and figure out why that is.
And a billion dollars for anything messaging-related completely blows my mind. Most of the world-changing software was developed for a few thousand dollars by a couple of people working in their spare time. To me, paying that much completely misses the point and probably hinders progress by locking capital up in niches that exclude developers who are working towards creating a non-scarcity based economy.
Re: Messaging apps shouldn't make money – Pavel Durov and Telegram
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
XMPP have troubles with synchronizing chats between clients, with push notifications, with user-friendly mobile clients. I like XMPP, I did set up my own server, but I finally abandoned it. It's usable only with one client, preferably on desktop.
>synchronizing chats between clients, The Carbons XEP[0] is now fairly widely supported and does exactly this. >user-friendly mobile clients. Conversations[1] is excellent and is free software. >push notifications The centralized system of push notifactions on Android and iOS is not yet supported, it's true, but XMPP with its extensions has pretty good support for battery-constrained devices with intermittent network…
Thanks, I'll look into that. I'm more interested with iOS and OS X apps (though Pidgin works well for OS X). And iOS doesn't permit messaging apps to work in background as far as I know, so push notifications are needed for comfort work. Though I'm usually near my laptop and probably can live without them.
Re: Messaging apps shouldn't make money – Pavel Durov and Telegram
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
XMPP have troubles with synchronizing chats between clients, with push notifications, with user-friendly mobile clients. I like XMPP, I did set up my own server, but I finally abandoned it. It's usable only with one client, preferably on desktop.
>synchronizing chats between clients, The Carbons XEP[0] is now fairly widely supported and does exactly this. >user-friendly mobile clients. Conversations[1] is excellent and is free software. >push notifications The centralized system of push notifactions on Android and iOS is not yet supported, it's true, but XMPP with its extensions has pretty good support for battery-constrained devices with intermittent network…
> >synchronizing chats between clients,
> The Carbons XEP is now fairly widely supported and does exactly this
I'll add MAM (http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html) for messages you didn't receive because one of your resources was offline, which Conversations does, along with at least Gajim.
> The centralized system of push notifactions on Android and iOS is not yet supported
It's coming (http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0357.html)
Re: Messaging apps shouldn't make money – Pavel Durov and Telegram
#49The team is amazingly technical. Nikolai Durov is a triple IMO gold medallists (and from Russia where selection is much more competitive than most other countries)
Re: Messaging apps shouldn't make money – Pavel Durov and Telegram
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems you missed this chunk of the article: Will he continue to bankroll the business -- or does he see revenue opportunities? "We will become financially sustainable at some point," he says. "It will most likely involve third-party paid apps built on the Telegram platform."
How do you collect rent on an open platform?
"How do you make money off search?" -- question by a lot of smart people around 2000.