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India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar

bbc.com

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Re: India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar

#41

Post by rayiner »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #31
eitally wrote: post #15

The problem is that if you have 1.4 million people to compete against in your state and you know the authorities don't really care if you cheat, then you absolutely have an incentive to cheat. This is a political & cultural problem, but is absolutely solvable. In my graduate program (~60 people) at a top tier US engineering school, about 10% were Chinese, 80% Indian, and 10% American. The Indians did all their work a…

I'm not clear on how what the Indians are doing affects the GPA of the Chinese or Americans in your example. Do they blow the curve, maybe? Also, Americans tend to put individual before group. I wonder if your example isn't so much cheating as a difference in culture.

It undermines the moral fabric of the society. It's not a coincidence that in India (or Bangladesh, where My family is from), you have to bribe someone to get your phone hooked up.

Re: India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar

#42

Post by ankurpatel »

monort wrote: post #32

If this video is authentic, cheating seems to be one of the lesser problems in Indian education. Instructors are hitting students: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zfC3kbOlQI

The laws are not strict and followed allowing students to cheat and not fear getting caught. If student was banned completely from higher education if they cheated once then no one would cheat.

Re: India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar

#43

Post by ceejayoz »

actopren wrote: post #36
ceejayoz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Worth noting that, this kind of news are not news at all for BBC. You really should check before asserting stuff like that. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7466438.stm

@ceejayoz I should say the same. The article link that I posted was reported in 2012. The link that you shared was from 2008.

And? I linked clear evidence that the BBC covers problems like cheating/fraud in the UK's educational system. You asserted they don't.

What is defamatory in the BBC's coverage here? The photographic evidence looks pretty conclusive.

Re: India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar

#44

Post by JustSomeNobody »

monort wrote: post #32

If this video is authentic, cheating seems to be one of the lesser problems in Indian education. Instructors are hitting students: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zfC3kbOlQI

I got slapped in the face by my 4th grade teacher once. This was back when schools had windows and so there was this kid bouncing one of those red "kick ball" balls on a sidewalk right outside my window. I couldn't concentrate on what I was doing so I got up, went to the window and said some pretty naughty things. My teacher marched right over and laid her hand across my face. My father just smiled when he heard about it and told me I got what I deserved. I was all "yes, ma'am" and "no, ma'am" to her from then on.

Re: India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar

#45

Post by Iftheshoefits »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #31
eitally wrote: post #15

The problem is that if you have 1.4 million people to compete against in your state and you know the authorities don't really care if you cheat, then you absolutely have an incentive to cheat. This is a political & cultural problem, but is absolutely solvable. In my graduate program (~60 people) at a top tier US engineering school, about 10% were Chinese, 80% Indian, and 10% American. The Indians did all their work a…

I'm not clear on how what the Indians are doing affects the GPA of the Chinese or Americans in your example. Do they blow the curve, maybe? Also, Americans tend to put individual before group. I wonder if your example isn't so much cheating as a difference in culture.

It is cheating. The rules are quite clear, and these groups break those rules in a way that gives them an immediate and direct advantage over students who don't break the rules. The rules themselves may be subject to debate, but that these people engage in cheating really isn't.

They don't blow any curves necessarily but they do appear to be smarter or more able, and that impacts everything from teaching assignments to thesis committee solicitation.

Re: India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar

#46

Post by actopren »

ceejayoz wrote: post #43
actopren wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@ceejayoz I should say the same. The article link that I posted was reported in 2012. The link that you shared was from 2008.

And? I linked clear evidence that the BBC covers problems like cheating/fraud in the UK's educational system. You asserted they don't. What is defamatory in the BBC's coverage here? The photographic evidence looks pretty conclusive.

Well. Did they report the article with clear picture? I dont think so. There is a clear bias.

EDIT: Please read this - for some back story. BBC keeps on doing this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_BBC#Indophobi...

EDIT: Also, read this thread if you have some time. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2zmk9h/bbc_cut_o...

Re: India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar

#47

Post by chdir »

That picture of students hanging from the windows of exam hall is hilarious and sad. Though it is not representational of India on the whole. The state of Bihar has been notorious when it comes to 'cheating' in exams (besides heightened levels of crimes in every other field).

The title of the article leaves a bad taste in the mouth. The premier universities in India have a much more robust system of conducting exams. More than a decade ago, the exam paper was supposedly leaked before the exam. The exam, which is conducted all over India, was cancelled and re-conducted. That was quite a feat.

However, on the -ve side, there are political leaders who have encouraged 'cheating' by abolishing laws against such acts.

Re: India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar

#48

Post by buyx »

eitally wrote: post #15

The problem is that if you have 1.4 million people to compete against in your state and you know the authorities don't really care if you cheat, then you absolutely have an incentive to cheat. This is a political & cultural problem, but is absolutely solvable. In my graduate program (~60 people) at a top tier US engineering school, about 10% were Chinese, 80% Indian, and 10% American. The Indians did all their work a…

In South Africa some universities have introduced cameras into exam halls, but cheating is probably rampant at those that haven't. I've been in an exam where people in the next row (teachers no less, doing what seemed like an easy exam) were blatantly cheating. First world notions of "honour" and "integrity" don't gel well with third world aspirations.

Oh and South African Indian students (in the country for generations, and affluent relative to the rest of the population) are amongst the biggest cheats. A BCom (commerce) degree held by an Indian graduate from the the University of KwaZulu-Natal (UKZN) is something to be viewed with great suspicion.

Re: India students caught 'cheating' in exams in Bihar

#49

Post by Anonymous9723 »

eitally wrote: post #15

The problem is that if you have 1.4 million people to compete against in your state and you know the authorities don't really care if you cheat, then you absolutely have an incentive to cheat. This is a political & cultural problem, but is absolutely solvable. In my graduate program (~60 people) at a top tier US engineering school, about 10% were Chinese, 80% Indian, and 10% American. The Indians did all their work a…

I decided to post this anonymously. I am a professor at a major CS program in the united states. And we have a very serious cheating problem with indian students. It's clearly cultural. We also see cheating at a fairly high rate among the chinese and students from a handful of middle eastern countries, but the indian students are way out in front: it drives our indian faculty nuts.

It seems that indian students have instilled in them a drive to help pull one another out of the abyss. This is probably a noble, and perhaps critical, characteristic for survival in a third world country. But for exams and particularly projects in US institutions, it translates directly into a high degree of unethical plagiarism and cheating. It damages the reputation of the department and the diplomas of our non-cheating students. We do not know what to do about it.

I used to hold up the American students as the example to follow, since for decades they have had instilled in them basic notions about the ethics of cheating. But that's changing too: the millennials cheat at a much, much higher rate than Americans did before. Helicopter parenting? Changes in school culture? I don't know, but we have a big, big problem there as well.

* Edit. Just to make it clear for those who would like to say "well, the Americans do it too now". While it's true the millennials cheat a lot more than Americans did in the past, it's still a very small fraction of the rate we're seeing in the indian students.

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