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I code like a girl

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Re: I code like a girl

#41

Post by ajuc »

rmc wrote: post #37
lorddoig wrote: post #15

Sometimes I get a little happy - maybe even proud - when I read about the achievements of women who pioneered this field (especially the awesome Admiral Hopper.) Then I stop smiling and remind myself that, even in praise, it's not relevant.

Sometimes people claim that women are biologically, statistically, just not as good/interested as men at programming/technology, and point to current gender balance in tech as evidence of this ("There's a reason there's lots of male programmers, men must be just better!") Remembering some of these women, and the early history like this, is very relevant today to show that that's nonsense.

It's not nonsense.

Modern women are statisticaly less interested in programming. That's because boys 20 years ago got c-64 or PC because they wanted to play games, and girls 20 years ago got barbies.

Turns out barbie doesn't have the same side effects.

Re: I code like a girl

#42

Post by rmc »

hobs wrote: post #9

I have never heard anyone in real life tell a woman that she "codes like a girl.", as if that would be a diss anyway? Given that anyone with even a basic understanding of history would be awed by some of the women in the industry (ada and grace anyone), you would have to pretty stupid to come to the conclusion that women cant code.

> Given that anyone with even a basic understanding of history

Y'know how some film might have "hackers trying to break the FBI's firewall key"? And we all laugh because those film makers are so stupid about technology? Or how a newspaper will tell you how magnets and cabbage will cure your brain age?

Find some forums for historians[1], and you'll see historians laugh at how bad common understanding of history is.

Many people don't have an understand of basic history.

[1] e.g. http://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/

Re: I code like a girl

#43

Post by icebraining »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #17
throwawayaway wrote: post #7

the title is provocative, but the content is better. it's funny how grown women are referred to as girls, yet it's less common that grown men are referred to as boys - in my experience.

You see it in self reference as well. I hear women talk about their girlfriends all the time, but I never hear men mention their boyfriends. It is often the guys.

That's because the average men has a phobia of being labeled an homosexual.

Re: I code like a girl

#45

Post by MollyR »

liotier wrote: post #38
MollyR wrote: post #24

Why can't we just code like professionals ? Sidenote: Disclaimer: I was heavily influenced by my Biology professors. I don't think society evolved in vacuum separate from genetic evolution. So while I don't appreciate insulting people by gender. I do however think there are gender differences. Another person on HN linked me to this documentary, which opened my mind. https://vimeo.com/19707588

> Why can't we just code like professionals ? Because we put our heart in it - so we code like amateurs. The best professionals are amateurs who just happen to be paid.

Is it fair to say putting your heart into something makes you an amateur at something ?

I dunno, this feels off. Did I misunderstand the analogy ?

Re: I code like a girl

#46

Post by rmc »

MollyR wrote: post #24

Why can't we just code like professionals ? Sidenote: Disclaimer: I was heavily influenced by my Biology professors. I don't think society evolved in vacuum separate from genetic evolution. So while I don't appreciate insulting people by gender. I do however think there are gender differences. Another person on HN linked me to this documentary, which opened my mind. https://vimeo.com/19707588

> Why can't we just code like professionals ?

What does that mean? Suit and tie? Clean shaven, short back and sides?

Re: I code like a girl

#47

Post by rmc »

throwawayaway wrote: post #7

the title is provocative, but the content is better. it's funny how grown women are referred to as girls, yet it's less common that grown men are referred to as boys - in my experience.

When America had slavery, and apartheid, black men used to be referred to as "boy".

Re: I code like a girl

#48

Post by mrits »

ianstallings wrote: post #32
mrits wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've literally never said any of those and would feel uncomfortable doing so.

But you are aware of these sayings correct? This was not the first time you've heard them, right?

Yes, I am aware. But then again I phrased my original statement to show that there was a small frequency of use of these terms. Where females (in my area) have a very high frequency of referring to each other as girls. Almost like "woman" is a formal term.

Re: I code like a girl

#50

Post by kazinator »

> What is now considered a male-dominated field, was once defined as “women’s work.”

Once? It's naive to think that these attitudes do not persist, albeit in somewhat disguised forms, perhaps.

At some universities, for instance, engineers regard CS majors as "wimps". Engineering is hard, CS is soft.

Moreover, think about how there is an attitude that some "softer" or "easier" programming is lower on the pecking order. While programming as a broad category may not be "women's work", web design (even with client and server scripting) is "for girls" and, say, writing drivers for a network switch is for "real men".

Oh, the hard/soft stereotyping in digital tech is alive and kicking!

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