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How One High School Grad Studied Computer Science Debt-Free and Nabbed a $90k Job

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Re: How One High School Grad Studied Computer Science Debt-Free and Nabbed a $90k Job

#41

Post by nostrademons »

USNetizen wrote: post #28
woah wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, CS degrees have little to do with programming skill. I work with hacker school graduates that write cleaner more maintainable code faster than others with CS degrees and 20 years of experience. EDIT: Actually, the fact that you mention "large scale engineered systems" is interesting. Generally, I have found large, monolithic, tightly coupled systems to be very unmaintainable. "Building a small app" (or a bu…

That is your social proof. Try passing one of these hacker school grads off in an engineered environment at Google scale - they fall apart quickly. You proved my point, though. Programming is only one small aspect of computer science. Engineering, mathematics and theory is the biggest part which you can't get at a 6 week school.

I worked at Google, in Search. Some of my best co-workers studied Film Studies, Philosophy, never went to college, or toured with a punk rock band in their early 20s.

A CS degree is one way to learn about algorithms and core CS concepts. It is not the only way.

Re: How One High School Grad Studied Computer Science Debt-Free and Nabbed a $90k Job

#42

Post by Dewie »

USNetizen wrote: post #22

People confuse entry level programming with true computer science. I'm sorry, but there is no way a few months at some "hacker school" will replace a four year degree heavy in mathematics, theory and design. Schools like these are producing mediocre coders, at best. Which is fine if you just want to write a few small apps. But you REALLY need that CS experience and education to effectively work on large scale enginee…

> On a side note, I also got a CS degree debt free. I served my country to get it. People want so much for nothing - there are no true shortcuts in life.

And if there were, I'll bet people like you would feel pretty cheated.

Re: How One High School Grad Studied Computer Science Debt-Free and Nabbed a $90k Job

#45

Post by robotkilla »

USNetizen wrote: post #28
woah wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, CS degrees have little to do with programming skill. I work with hacker school graduates that write cleaner more maintainable code faster than others with CS degrees and 20 years of experience. EDIT: Actually, the fact that you mention "large scale engineered systems" is interesting. Generally, I have found large, monolithic, tightly coupled systems to be very unmaintainable. "Building a small app" (or a bu…

That is your social proof. Try passing one of these hacker school grads off in an engineered environment at Google scale - they fall apart quickly. You proved my point, though. Programming is only one small aspect of computer science. Engineering, mathematics and theory is the biggest part which you can't get at a 6 week school.

> Engineering, mathematics and theory is the biggest part which you can't get at a 6 week school

Agreed. Sadly lots of people are getting sucked into the start up tech bubble. Sure you can get a really high paying tech job on limited knowledge as a web developer at some shitty start up, but it might be gone tomorrow and you'll find yourself SOL.

Having gone the no CS degree route myself I can say that I find myself in a constant loop where I have to prove my abilities even with the recommendation of former bosses and a nice resume.

Re: How One High School Grad Studied Computer Science Debt-Free and Nabbed a $90k Job

#46

Post by vonklaus »

chriogenix wrote: post #9
mateo411 wrote: post #5

If he still has an opportunity to go to MIT, he should do that. It's great that he was able to get into the industry, but not many people have the opportunity to get an education at MIT. He will get to learn a lot of topics(Physics, EE, theoretical CS) that he wouldn't get exposed to in industry. He will probably make some of his lifetime friends there too. This network will be great for his social and professional l…

I'd say it depends on what the costs are. If he has to rack up a TON of student loan debt it may not make much sense. You can make friends and social connections outside of school if you create the environment to do that. Its a lot easier in school but to avoid the traps of student loan debt its probably better to continue making/creating software if thats the end goal.

I would wager that MIT has some of the best return on capital in the world. MIT is an amazing school, has an amazing reputation, and getting an engineering degree from MIT will likely be worth it. Like was already said, the network and life experience are really amazing. I could only imagine the kind of people one meets at MIT. Interesting and intelligent people with similar interests.

I went to a coding school (I also attended university) and I would say that when you are young, college is an amazing experience where you learn a lot about life.

I think someone will eventually crack the code by getting a school together for 2 years with >500 students and partner with a university so that students can get social activities in. This, in my opinion, would be the absolute best scenario.

A college experience, amazing education, and a long enough time horizon to learn and build interesting things.

Re: How One High School Grad Studied Computer Science Debt-Free and Nabbed a $90k Job

#49

Post by USNetizen »

patio11 wrote: post #32
USNetizen wrote: post #22

People confuse entry level programming with true computer science. I'm sorry, but there is no way a few months at some "hacker school" will replace a four year degree heavy in mathematics, theory and design. Schools like these are producing mediocre coders, at best. Which is fine if you just want to write a few small apps. But you REALLY need that CS experience and education to effectively work on large scale enginee…

FWIW, I'd self-assess at top 20% of my CS class (WashU), and I can say without reservation that as of graduation day it would have been rank insanity to have me coding on a production system. There are occasional times when the book learning comes in handy, but CS degrees are, in my experience, neither necessary nor sufficient to develop ability to ship working software.

Yes, to ship working software you need nothing - high schoolers do it. But to MAINTAIN and ENGINEER an efficient, secure software system (especially for enterprise environments), you need CS fundamentals. These CAN be learned on the job over several years of work, but no 6 week school can teach you them overnight.

Re: How One High School Grad Studied Computer Science Debt-Free and Nabbed a $90k Job

#50

Post by crimsonalucard »

woah wrote: post #27
USNetizen wrote: post #22

People confuse entry level programming with true computer science. I'm sorry, but there is no way a few months at some "hacker school" will replace a four year degree heavy in mathematics, theory and design. Schools like these are producing mediocre coders, at best. Which is fine if you just want to write a few small apps. But you REALLY need that CS experience and education to effectively work on large scale enginee…

Actually, CS degrees have little to do with programming skill. I work with hacker school graduates that write cleaner more maintainable code faster than others with CS degrees and 20 years of experience. EDIT: Actually, the fact that you mention "large scale engineered systems" is interesting. Generally, I have found large, monolithic, tightly coupled systems to be very unmaintainable. "Building a small app" (or a bu…

I've met these hacker school/self taught types. One of them worked as a programmer for 20 years and didn't know what was recursion until about a year ago. He gets away with it because in programming there are many ways to solve a problem. Usually you only need to solve the problem rather then find the best way to do it.

A CS graduate will know about a 50 ways to solve a problem and will have the ability to find the most optimal way to do it. He'd probably take twice as long as the hacker school graduate who'd solve the problem using the one canned method he was taught in hacker school.

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