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This bakery will hire anyone

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Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#41

Post by jim_greco »

bequanna wrote: post #32
jim_greco wrote: post #9

The lack of second chances we give in America to some of our most unfortunate means that even non-violent offenses can have lifelong consequences. It's shameful.

This isn't about 'second chances'. Employers are picky because they can afford to be. They will (mostly) always favor Ivy over state school grads, clean record vs. felon, good credit risk vs. applicant that declared bankruptcy ...and so on. As low economic growth continues, this is only going to get worse. How many middle-aged people do you see working at Target/Wal-Mart now vs. 15 years ago? If you're not highly ski…

Employers can't afford to be picky anymore. The unemployment number is now 5.5% and we've had a year of 250k+ jobs added per month. If you want to use anecdotes about Walmart, even they have been forced to increase their wages to retain talent recently.

The axe against ex-cons is an ingrained bias that hurts competitiveness. It is an unfortunate 'reality' that it is a bias that is tolerated in America today.

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#42

Post by thaumasiotes »

Red_Tarsius wrote: post #25
zf00002 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked a minimum wage cashier job for a convenience store that had 3 rounds of interviews. During the 2nd interview I had to sit there while the hr manager called each of my references and verified info. I was not expecting this and one of my refs was on a family vacation in Puerto Rico. This ended up being a gigantic hassle and afterwards he told me that he wouldn't be a reference anymore. Anyway, I couldn't belie…

Sorry you had to go through that. 3 rounds for a cashier job is crazy; it wasted the time and money of that bad manager, as well as each one of the applicants. Country wise, multiple interviews for no-skill jobs seem an economy sinkhole.

As I understand it, cashier is a low-skill job with high trust requirements (since they work directly with money).

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#43

Post by Shivetya »

jim_greco wrote: post #9

The lack of second chances we give in America to some of our most unfortunate means that even non-violent offenses can have lifelong consequences. It's shameful.

well it is not like government doesn't have entry level jobs it could apprentice the recently paroled into. From janitorial to grounds maintenance to even becoming a fireman or similar first responder.

I do note that this business in the article is not really subject to costly losses from theft. There are likely others of similar nature where this can work.

Lastly, back on the government angle. There isn't any reason to not develop programs that start in prison to guide people into jobs with private employers who do not high skilled workers. From wage and transportation assistance there is opportunity there. It won't come free, but is has to be many times cheaper.

I wonder how many felons would vanish off the rolls if all marijuana convictions were pardoned?

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#44

Post by DanBC »

gadders wrote: post #29
Stratoscope wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you both for the courage to post this, and for the link to Johann Hari's article. It is a real eye-opener. (If anyone is tempted to skip it because of the HuffPo link, take my word for it, this is well worth reading.)

Don't skip it because it's HuffPo, skip it because it's Johann Hari. He's a plagiarist and a cyber stalker. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hari

Weird to see a positive article about the benefits of letting people who have served their time get back into work juxtaposed with your post saying, essentially, Burn him he's a plagiarist.

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#45

Post by sgift »

bequanna wrote: post #32
jim_greco wrote: post #9

The lack of second chances we give in America to some of our most unfortunate means that even non-violent offenses can have lifelong consequences. It's shameful.

This isn't about 'second chances'. Employers are picky because they can afford to be. They will (mostly) always favor Ivy over state school grads, clean record vs. felon, good credit risk vs. applicant that declared bankruptcy ...and so on. As low economic growth continues, this is only going to get worse. How many middle-aged people do you see working at Target/Wal-Mart now vs. 15 years ago? If you're not highly ski…

> This isn't 'right' or 'wrong', it's just reality.

Government-supported reality. You can say that this is okay, but please do not make it look like this is just the way it is: The government could disallow access to all felony records (probably with an exemption for police) and even (if it wanted) provide people with a fake background story for the time they were in prison. Discrimination can only be based on things someone else knows, if the government didn't provide the information, how could the employers be "picky"?

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#46

Post by cubano »

gadders wrote: post #29
Stratoscope wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you both for the courage to post this, and for the link to Johann Hari's article. It is a real eye-opener. (If anyone is tempted to skip it because of the HuffPo link, take my word for it, this is well worth reading.)

Don't skip it because it's HuffPo, skip it because it's Johann Hari. He's a plagiarist and a cyber stalker. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hari

Wow, can the meta-irony of this particular point be any deeper?

Good thing there will always be a job waiting for him at the bakery.

"Following the release of his book, Chasing the Scream, in 2015, Hari gave a number of interviews where he expressed regret for his actions. In order to quell doubts about his reporting, he also released full audio copies of sources he interviewed for his book. In an interview with the Little Atoms podcast, Hari also stated that he would apologise to Nick Cohen and Francis Wheen."[1]

I think the article is exceptionally well-written, personal, and informative, and gave me, as someone intimately involved with all things addiction for 30 years, fresh perspective.

The fact that he seems to be currently deeply in love with an active addict may be motivation behind the piece, but it takes little away from the insights.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hari

[edits]

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#47

Post by Varcht »

jim_greco wrote: post #41
bequanna wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about 'second chances'. Employers are picky because they can afford to be. They will (mostly) always favor Ivy over state school grads, clean record vs. felon, good credit risk vs. applicant that declared bankruptcy ...and so on. As low economic growth continues, this is only going to get worse. How many middle-aged people do you see working at Target/Wal-Mart now vs. 15 years ago? If you're not highly ski…

Employers can't afford to be picky anymore. The unemployment number is now 5.5% and we've had a year of 250k+ jobs added per month. If you want to use anecdotes about Walmart, even they have been forced to increase their wages to retain talent recently. The axe against ex-cons is an ingrained bias that hurts competitiveness. It is an unfortunate 'reality' that it is a bias that is tolerated in America today.

I wouldn't get too excited about that unemployment number. Only ~63% of Americans are even trying to work and a lot of those that are, are under employed.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/ali-meyer/628-labor-force-pa...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-06/americans-not-labor...

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#48

Post by cubano »

themartorana wrote: post #16
jim_greco wrote: post #9

The lack of second chances we give in America to some of our most unfortunate means that even non-violent offenses can have lifelong consequences. It's shameful.

That's how I think about a lot of sentencing. Take sex offenders. After they are let out of prison, they have to register as a sex offender, can only live in certain areas, etc., which is equivalent to a life sentence. We can debate the kind of punishment sex offenders deserve (and don't judge too quickly - urinating in public, statutory rape of a minor 6 months younger than yourself, visiting a prostitute, and even…

> It's no wonder recidivism is so high in the US.

To those who make very comfortable livings in the US legal system, that is not a bug, it's a designed feature.

Oh, and oddly enough, they happen to be the same people whom make the sentencing laws.

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#49

Post by [deleted] »

jfoutz wrote: post #37
nostromo wrote: post #24

I think more employers would do this if firing was easier. It's perhaps counterintuitive that making firing cheap, easy, and without large liabilities could reduce our unemployment rate substantially. We should reduce the risk of employers taking a chance on people.

In the US at least, firing is really easy. "any hiring is presumed to be 'at will'; that is, the employer is free to discharge individuals 'for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all,' and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work." Managers are people. I'd imagine there's a fair amount of guilt and shame around firing someone. I also think managers underestimate the damage done by c…

[deleted]

Re: This bakery will hire anyone

#50

Post by cubano »

Shivetya wrote: post #43
jim_greco wrote: post #9

The lack of second chances we give in America to some of our most unfortunate means that even non-violent offenses can have lifelong consequences. It's shameful.

well it is not like government doesn't have entry level jobs it could apprentice the recently paroled into. From janitorial to grounds maintenance to even becoming a fireman or similar first responder. I do note that this business in the article is not really subject to costly losses from theft. There are likely others of similar nature where this can work. Lastly, back on the government angle. There isn't any reason…

Probably not as many that should, because the vast majority of marijuana convictions are misdemeanors.
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