Obama sharply criticizes China's plans for new technology rules • Hacker News Board

Re: Obama sharply criticizes China's plans for new technology rules

#41

Post by happyscrappy » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 2:13 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #13

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, are Obama and W much worse than Reagan, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Rossevelt? The US will keep using up the last of its credibility year after year, and of course that just means it isn't.

I'll bite. Yes, in terms of foreign policy, I think that W and especially Obama have been profoundly, historically, difficult-to-believe bad. I'm not trying to downplay Iran-Contra, Gulf of Tonkin / Vietnam, etc., but the last two administrations have taken what was unduly hostile (and expensive) logistical capability around the world and turned it into Empire. The needs, wants, representative processes, laws, and so…

>The needs, wants, representative processes, laws, and sovereignty of other nations have reduced in relevance to the Empire's decision making process to zero.

Other nations are not obligated to actually do anything or stand up for themselves and if it is known that their rhetoric will result in zero action why would you bother listening to them in the first place?

Re: Obama sharply criticizes China's plans for new technology rules

#42

Post by NietTim » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 2:18 PM UTC

shillster wrote: post #31

gygygy wrote: post #12

Wait, wasn't it his own government which decided to spy on their own people ? Didn't he force his own country's companies to spy on his own people? I used to like obama a lot. Used to...

He also said he was against warrantless wiretapping during his campaign.

To be fair, people change opinions.

Re: Obama sharply criticizes China's plans for new technology rules

#43

Post by nabla9 » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 2:19 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #13

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, are Obama and W much worse than Reagan, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Rossevelt? The US will keep using up the last of its credibility year after year, and of course that just means it isn't.

I'll bite. Yes, in terms of foreign policy, I think that W and especially Obama have been profoundly, historically, difficult-to-believe bad. I'm not trying to downplay Iran-Contra, Gulf of Tonkin / Vietnam, etc., but the last two administrations have taken what was unduly hostile (and expensive) logistical capability around the world and turned it into Empire. The needs, wants, representative processes, laws, and so…

> around the world and turned it into Empire.

I would argue the opposite. Wars have eroded US global power. Iran was the biggest regional winner in the Iraq war, Saudi Arabia the biggest loser. US has weakened its position in the Middle East and Eurasia. Saudis are dealing with China more openly and Turkey is more independent. Even Germany is now more openly pushing it's own agenda in relation to Russia.

>Obama has attacked no less than seven different countries in undeclared wars.

International laws have changed a lot since WWII. Formal declarations of war (using the text 'declaration of war' in the bill) are not used anymore. There is no need to declare war if the war has UN authorization. If a country goes into war without UN authorization they can't do formal declaration without violating UN charter they have ratified.

If you look at the wars US has been involved since 2001, they are either wars authorized with UN resolution and funded by Congress or they are 'military engagements' authorized by Congress.

Re: Obama sharply criticizes China's plans for new technology rules

#44

Post by happyscrappy » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 2:22 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #36

dredmorbius wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's the only U.S. President in a long time to have no US troops deployed in combat, as I recall. Definitely since WWII, possibly WWI or earlier.

Well, there was Operation Eagle Claw to try and rescue the US hostages in Iran: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw

Carter is the canonical example of why you cannot appear soft on foreign policy.

Re: Obama sharply criticizes China's plans for new technology rules

#45

Post by kailuowang » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 2:27 PM UTC

SeanDav wrote: post #23

China is only trying to be upfront and public about things the US and Western countries have been doing in private for years. That is not to say I approve, (I do not) but my respect for Chinese authorities just went up a notch. The good thing about this is that it brings debate far more into the open and shines a light on some very shady policies.

The Chinese government never never really care about counter terrorism, all they care about is keeping their power. To keep their power they need to control their people's mind, to control people's mind they need to control the internet. That's it. It's not about privacy, it's about free speech. Please do not confuse this with the debate (about privacy) happening in the western countries.

Re: Obama sharply criticizes China's plans for new technology rules

#46

Post by ed_blackburn » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

I have to mirror the general sentiment of most posters. Nationstate's criticising these measures are entitled to but in my opinion are committing an act of hypocrisy. At least I am entitled to that opinion I suppose. Even if it means I may be investigated for terrorism, without a warrant, behind my back. The audacity of criticism.

Re: Obama sharply criticizes China's plans for new technology rules

#47

Post by jchrome » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

kailuowang wrote: post #45

SeanDav wrote: post #23

China is only trying to be upfront and public about things the US and Western countries have been doing in private for years. That is not to say I approve, (I do not) but my respect for Chinese authorities just went up a notch. The good thing about this is that it brings debate far more into the open and shines a light on some very shady policies.

The Chinese government never never really care about counter terrorism, all they care about is keeping their power. To keep their power they need to control their people's mind, to control people's mind they need to control the internet. That's it. It's not about privacy, it's about free speech. Please do not confuse this with the debate (about privacy) happening in the western countries.

Inevitably when you take away privacy you hamper freedom of speech. There have already been polls of journalists who are concerned with reporting on important items because of a lack of privacy.

Re: Obama sharply criticizes China's plans for new technology rules

#48

Post by balabaster » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 2:46 PM UTC

I laugh at the blatant double standards held by the U.S. government here. They want to do exactly the same thing in the U.S. with all companies, yet they criticize China for wanting to do the same thing there? You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want China to drop that policy, then you have to be willing to drop that policy too.

Re: Obama sharply criticizes China's plans for new technology rules

#49

Post by task_queue » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 2:47 PM UTC

kailuowang wrote: post #45

SeanDav wrote: post #23

China is only trying to be upfront and public about things the US and Western countries have been doing in private for years. That is not to say I approve, (I do not) but my respect for Chinese authorities just went up a notch. The good thing about this is that it brings debate far more into the open and shines a light on some very shady policies.

The Chinese government never never really care about counter terrorism, all they care about is keeping their power. To keep their power they need to control their people's mind, to control people's mind they need to control the internet. That's it. It's not about privacy, it's about free speech. Please do not confuse this with the debate (about privacy) happening in the western countries.

Same parallels can be drawn for western powers. Counterterrorism is the raison du jour for expanding and securing power. See what we've done and continue to do to the free press when it concerns our military affairs or national security. See the firewalls western countries are building that rival the Great Firewall.

Re: Obama sharply criticizes China's plans for new technology rules

#50

Post by msandford » Tue, Mar 03, 2015, 2:47 PM UTC

NietTim wrote: post #42

shillster wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He also said he was against warrantless wiretapping during his campaign.

To be fair, people change opinions.

To be fair if you make campaign promises and then change your mind as soon as you're in power it doesn't look so good.