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France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

washingtonpost.com

41–50 of 63 posts

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#41
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that there is a huge untapped market for selling easily repairable appliances to DIYers.

And go back to what has been the norm in the 50s. I have a few books from my grand father, by Eugène Aisberg: "La radio, mais c'est très simple", and the equivalent one for analog televisions. They explain the basic working principles of (analog, tube-based) radios ans TVs and how to repair them. The hardware was simpler and easier to fix back then.

And cars. Let's not forget about fault finding a car requires a considerable investment in diagnostics gear.

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#42
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that there is a huge untapped market for selling easily repairable appliances to DIYers.

And go back to what has been the norm in the 50s. I have a few books from my grand father, by Eugène Aisberg: "La radio, mais c'est très simple", and the equivalent one for analog televisions. They explain the basic working principles of (analog, tube-based) radios ans TVs and how to repair them. The hardware was simpler and easier to fix back then.

[deleted]

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#43

Here in New Zealand all goods sold to a consumer have to have a 'reasonable' life-span, with repair or replacement at the merchant's expense. Reasonable depends on the appliance and is determined by a magistrate. Things like lengths of extended warranty offered can be used to determine that. It works pretty well. Of course the retailers like to avoid their obligations and people chime up with the "that's why prices a…

There is a law like that in most European countries afaik. In the UK it was called (back when I did business law 20 years ago) "fit for purpose" which was a vague description of 1. if it's a tumble dryer it should dry clothes without ruining them 2. it should last as long as a tumble dryer is expected to last (really up to whatever argument you can make in court should it get that far). Of course the UK law might have changed a lot since I was a young whippersnapper.

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#45
post #17
post #2

The title of the article seems... misleading. It implies the French government is forcing companies to manufacture products in a particular way, when what they are doing is forcing manufacturers to disclose to customer they planned lifespan of a product. Which, by the way, seems like an excellent proposition. As a (potential) customer I can factor in lifespan with features and price for things I buy and make a better…

> Anything that gives customers more accurate information should lead to better-functioning markets. Not if the information is vague or subjective or manipulable (as I think "expected lifespan" would be), or if that information is very costly for the manufacturer to estimate, or for the government to verify. Sometimes its better to let the market work on its own, e.g. through product reviews.

my concern would be, would this open manufacturers up to litigation if items sold with expected lifespans that fail before then even if outside of warranty?

to be honest, I very much doubt I would post an expected lifespan greater than warranty.

personal note, many of my small appliances are purchased used off ebay for prices similar to new or even less and they all work fine, my toaster is sixty years old, table fan almost a hundred, and I never worry they won't work

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#46
post #27

This will make everything more expensive. E.g. take Bosch/Siemens and Miele. Miele stuff really lasts forever but costs 2x that of Bosch/Siemens household stuff. If I could afford it, I'd buy Miele.

But how many times do you have to replace the Bosch and Siemens appliances? It might be a bigger initial investment, but over a lifetime it will likely work out cheaper.

Yes, but this assumes I could afford Miele appliances in the first place.

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#47

In Australia, while manufacturers don't have to label their products with the expected lifespan, under consumer law they are obliged to honor warranties for the 'reasonable life span' of a given product. This mean that if your $1k iPhone or $3k television break outside their warranty period but still inside what a reasonable person expect it to work (say 3, maybe 4 years for an undamaged iPhone, or 5-6 years for a br…

Interesting that this is left open ended like this. The term "reasonable" means different things to different people. What is the point of having a defined warranty period?

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#48
post #2

The title of the article seems... misleading. It implies the French government is forcing companies to manufacture products in a particular way, when what they are doing is forcing manufacturers to disclose to customer they planned lifespan of a product. Which, by the way, seems like an excellent proposition. As a (potential) customer I can factor in lifespan with features and price for things I buy and make a better…

> The title of the article seems... misleading. The content too… > (...) what they are doing is forcing manufacturers to disclose to customer they planned lifespan of a product. This part was removed from the law mid-february by the senate as reported by numerama[1] on feb 17th. What the law says is that deliberately limiting a product expected life during the design process is punishable by law with a maximum senten…

That's actually an excellent first step. It makes it clear that such a practice is not just cynical marketing but actually fraud. It will clear things a bit for people who ask designs that break after a set time. It will allow engineers and designers to refuse such tasks as illegal.

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#49
Overpopulation is not expected to be an ongoing issue in the upcoming century, but there is general consensus that hundreds of millions if not billions of people over that same time period are anticipated to enter current developed-world working- and middle-class living standards. And under our current understanding of household technology, that means a commensurate rise in consumption of white appliances. This new group of entrants into the white appliance markets are likely to have lower income profiles than their developed-world counterparts, due to the deflationary bias of ongoing globalization trends.

This confluence of factors could potentially open up an interesting and highly profitable business niche for a manufacturer that focuses on modular, repairable, maybe-hackable appliances.

Instead of promoting a consumption model where entire units are tossed out at the "end" of a "lifecycle", I can now concede a manufacturer could thrive on a far leaner capital profile than current industry participants where I wouldn't have thought it possible only 10 years ago, by focusing on the logistical tail of constantly repairing and improving "old" models, as opposed to concentrating on the new product manufacturing end.

This is also beneficial on the embedded energy cost and resource utilization efficiencies levels, which becomes extremely important as we scale up the population that participates in higher socioeconomic levels.

Human form factor-dependent design points can probably stay relatively static to benefit families in lower socioeconomic strata. For example, washing machines have not really changed their basic form factor in about a century. I'd rather sell a patching kit designed for my older tubs (a common failure mode) to those families today, enticing them to grab a used older model of mine than hope to capture them as customers ten years from now when they can maybe afford a new unit from me; it pulls in future sales without destabilizing debt schemes. Or if they can afford a little more, I can sell them a retrofit kit that supplies a newer future cleaning technology (like ultrasonic?) that fits older models. If they care about aesthetics, I sell them paint that exactly matches what they have on the old model.

All this while, I not only keep my units out of the landfill, but in the hands of more customers earlier than I normally could acquire them and out of the hands of my competitors in an inexpensive marketing/sales denial of service attack on that competition (and indeed, my customers are paying for that attack instead of me having to heavily spend on marketing to them). On top of this, my manufacturing costs shift increasingly out of the predations of the unpredictable turns and gyres of the commodities markets, and towards design (especially software) and small parts manufacturing. These can have higher margins than the whole units, and might be a lot cheaper than even JIT inventory to "stock" in the future, with local 3D-printing-style distribution centers for those parts that can be on-demand manufactured practically at point of sale. As the global population level stabilizes as currently expected, I'd already be positioned to sell into an economic environment where brand-new product purchases are made with increasingly razor-thin margins.

For those oldest models that fall below a logistical tail cutoff, I could release CAD/CAM and other design files to let hackers do what they will with those models, with the intent to temporarily boost those models popularity and continue to stymie competitors' entrance with customers of those models. When the cost of labor is low enough, making repairing and reconditioning possible can potentially be very remunerative for manufacturers who do not build around a business model of continuous, growing new unit sales (which in turn is predicated upon a continuous, growing population).

Re: France wants companies to make appliances that last longer

#50
post #22
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be great if they standardised on 'price per year of use' like they do now in australia where food always has to have the $/100g or $/100ml in addition to the unit price. (Many supermarkets were basically rorting people by charging more for the 'bulk' items but labelling them as best value)

In Britain they also have some unit-price law. But Tesco blatantly abuses it: eg one kind of apple is priced by piece, the next goes per 100g (or per 1kg, but converting between 100g and 1kg is simpler).

For what it's worth we have a unit-price law in France and Belgium as well. I can't be certain but I am pretty sure we had that before the Euro currency was introduced and it was mandatory after that.
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