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Universities warn Congress that patent reform would harm US innovation

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Re: Universities warn Congress that patent reform would harm US innovation

#41

Many successful companies started as university startups working with federal funds. If the university was not able to patent, then the startups could never happen. Since startups are credited with being the innovation driver in the commercial world, killing off all of these startups would have a stifling effect on innovation in the US. A similar situation is with the small business innovative research program (SBIR)…

>If the university was not able to patent, then the startups could never happen.

You make some interesting points. Would you mind explaining this one a bit more? It's not self-evident to me.

Re: Universities warn Congress that patent reform would harm US innovation

#42

Many successful companies started as university startups working with federal funds. If the university was not able to patent, then the startups could never happen. Since startups are credited with being the innovation driver in the commercial world, killing off all of these startups would have a stifling effect on innovation in the US. A similar situation is with the small business innovative research program (SBIR)…

I worked at a startup that was awarded SBIRs. We were developing e-learning software and our government client was an Air Force base. It's true that being able to retain copyright ownership was the reason the startup existed. However, no patents were ever filed.

I think we should just do away with software patents. Math formulas and rules to games are not patentable and I think software is exactly a fusion of formulas and rules--apps in pure functional languages are functions after all.

The exception could be firmware/software driving machinery where the invention is more than software (or the combination of software and commodity hardware).

Re: Universities warn Congress that patent reform would harm US innovation

#43
post #11

I'd like to say... I just attended a talk where one of the professors is using NSF funding to conduct research, then patent all of their work. Companies are then forced to pay the university based research group for use of their products and for further development. Personally, I cannot decide whether or not this is for the best or not. The research group can bring in more money to produce quality work. On the other…

There is so much of that kind of thing going on. It's even worse when public money paid for "research" that resulted in a product that is then sold back to the government and then additional contracts are issued to improve, change, customize, or alter the product. All of which is funded at wildly overpriced rates without any controls or solid guidelines.

[deleted]

Re: Universities warn Congress that patent reform would harm US innovation

#44
Dear 144 Universities,

I believe I am not alone in holding the opinion that public funds should not result in private gains. The Bayh-Dole Act of 1980 screwed the taxpaying public for your benefit. The public is not wrong to ask that it be reversed or corrected.

If you wish to enjoy the benefits of private research, stop asking for the grant of public research funding. If you wish to enjoy the benefits of public research funding, stop asking for the grant of a limited monopoly.

University administration is already treading upon thin ice by employing ever-increasing numbers of underpaid temporary and part-time employees to undertake one of the essential and indispensable functions of a university: teaching. At the same time, tuition charged to students has risen much higher than the rate of inflation, and student loan debt burdens have skyrocketed.

Thus, I have no sympathy for you. The remedy already available to you for an increased cost in defense of patents is to produce fewer, more defensible patents.

The truth of the Bayh-Dole legacy is that it has allowed the profit motive to corrupt science to an even greater extent than the "publish or perish" culture and the bias against negative results. You are no longer doing research for the sake of the advancement of knowledge, but research for the advancement of the university's revenues, and those motives produce vastly different results in practice.

Furthermore, you are not rare and privileged centers of innovation. Advancement in technology has removed certain areas of research from the sole demesne of universities and national research laboratories to private corporations, or even to crowd-funded campaigns for a single individual.

Doppler radar: invented before Bayh-Dole.

Web browsers: Berners-Lee testified at the Eolas trial that he did not attempt to patent the web. Further evidence showed that Berners-Lee had previously described the U.S. patent system as "incentive for obfuscation" and that the threshold for patentability is set "ridiculously low." Yes, bringing that up as an example of university innovation was a great idea. Berners-Lee never tried to squeeze a dime out of his web browser, and the entire world has benefited from that generosity and foresight in far greater measure than he ever could have hoped to keep for himself.

The Internet: invented before Bayh-Dole. Unpatented.

CT scans: invented in 1971, before Bayh-Dole, in the UK.

MRI: invented in 1971, before Bayh-Dole. SUNY chose not to patent it.

FluMist (LAIV): I'm not entirely certain why vaccination is held out as an example of why university innovation should be patent protected, as Edward Jenner became a physician through apprenticeship, and the Royal Society did not even publish his initial reports. FluMist does not seem all that remarkable an innovation in light of the facts that other influenza vaccines exist, and the side effects of FluMist are more severe than for injected vaccines.

GPS: This one was unequivocally driven by the U.S. DoD, and the first satellite launched before Bayh-Dole. The invention of more accurate timepieces have always, throughout the whole of history, been driven by navies, for whom that technology is the Holy Grail of navigation.

Barcodes: This was invented by Woodland and Silver, based upon Morse code and motion picture soundtracks. Neither were employed by a university at the time. Their 1952 invention preceded Bayh-Dole.

Could those universities not come up with examples of how PATENTED and DEFENDED innovations changed the world? Perhaps they might have also done us the honor of fact-checking their own claims to establish that their examples were also attributable to a university?

Re: Universities warn Congress that patent reform would harm US innovation

#45
Just to play devils advocate:

One can be pretty innovative if he has to develop CPU without using XOR operation.

Are there technologies developed solely as alternative to patent? I can think of PNG x GIF, OGG x MP3, Display Port X DVI...

I would say that patent creates sort of monopol, which forces others to go with open solutions. Similar situation was when Windows caused Linux to emerge. Without patents we would be stacked with whatever comes. And that would be probably badly designed proprietary technology.

Re: Universities warn Congress that patent reform would harm US innovation

#46
post #23
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much of that kind of thing going on. It's even worse when public money paid for "research" that resulted in a product that is then sold back to the government and then additional contracts are issued to improve, change, customize, or alter the product. All of which is funded at wildly overpriced rates without any controls or solid guidelines.

Government procurement is an important part of how products are brought to market in our current system. That's not to say it's just or efficient at all. But it would be a mistake to view it as mere waste that ought to be excised without broader reform. Currently it fills the gap between the research and commercialization phases.

Prove it.

Re: Universities warn Congress that patent reform would harm US innovation

#48

Many successful companies started as university startups working with federal funds. If the university was not able to patent, then the startups could never happen. Since startups are credited with being the innovation driver in the commercial world, killing off all of these startups would have a stifling effect on innovation in the US. A similar situation is with the small business innovative research program (SBIR)…

There is a big leap between 'not being able to patent' and 'startup could never happen' that you need to explain. Many, many people create businesses out of open source technologies.

> Many, many people create businesses out of open source technologies.

Many people use open source technologies to sell some other product. That's different from being in the business of building and selling an open source product.

Say you invent a new kind of power amplifier. You open source it, and don't patent it. You start selling the chips, and some Korean company immediately copies it and undercuts you on price. So what's your business model now?

Re: Universities warn Congress that patent reform would harm US innovation

#49
post #33

I'd like to say... I just attended a talk where one of the professors is using NSF funding to conduct research, then patent all of their work. Companies are then forced to pay the university based research group for use of their products and for further development. Personally, I cannot decide whether or not this is for the best or not. The research group can bring in more money to produce quality work. On the other…

The elephant in the room is that taxpayers are subsidizing private tech industry that gets to keep all the profits from commercializations of public research, save for the pittance they sometimes pay for tech transfer licenses. There is a bit a selective outrage going on here. How dare those universities try to profit from taxpayer research! The nerve! Meanwhile tech companies make billions of profits on these invent…

One reason why grants don't always cover the full cost of labs/professorships is because Universities would grab a significant % of the grant into "general overhead" fund. Just another source of revenue for the University as a whole.

Re: Universities warn Congress that patent reform would harm US innovation

#50
post #39

I'd like to say... I just attended a talk where one of the professors is using NSF funding to conduct research, then patent all of their work. Companies are then forced to pay the university based research group for use of their products and for further development. Personally, I cannot decide whether or not this is for the best or not. The research group can bring in more money to produce quality work. On the other…

Consider Kickstarter. Just because the public pays for the development of the product, does that mean the product should be free (or at least, sold at the cost of materials)? I call this the "MIT model" of R&D. MIT, moreso than Stanford, is famous for participating in the military-industrial-educational complex. It's anything but ideologically pure, but it's also been amazingly successful at developing "hard" technol…

Kickstarter is considerably different:

1. Donors are able to choose which projects to contribute to.

2. There is often a direct benefit associated with the contribution, such as a discount, advanced release, or special version of the product.

IMO Contributing to a Kickstarter project is much more like shopping than it is like paying taxes or making charitable donations.

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