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As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

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Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#41

Post by yetanother123 »

briantakita wrote: post #8
webwanderings wrote: post #2

Excerpt: We now know that breast cancer is not one disease. What works for one person might not for another: There is no one “cure.” We are each, in effect, one-person clinical trials. Yet the knowledge generated from those trials will die with us because there is no comprehensive database of metastatic breast cancer patients, their characteristics and what treatments did and didn't help them. In the Big Data-era, th…

Does cancer occur in healthy ecosystems? Maybe big data & reductionism is an incomplete approach... On the flip side, such techniques will make some people a lot of money, so ignore or downvote my concerns...

Also wanted to let you know: Brian - people around you, that you talk to a lot think you're a flake. Because you are. Please stop reading the fringe websites you do. Please start believing that scientific consensus means that - consensus. Smart people fight every day to move it forward (that's how they get tenure/paid).

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#42

Post by yetanother123 »

briantakita2 wrote: post #27
raldi wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pretty transparent attempt at reverse psychology, and a form of vote-begging. Intstead try, "I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this, but..."

I can see how it's perceived that way. Fwiw, that was my frustration of down votes for unpopular, well meaning, statements. Thank you for the communication & attitude tip. I'll adopt it.

Except - your statements might be well meaning, but they are a) inflammatory b) poorly formulated and c) not backed by any kind of evidence. You keep referring to programming, but the equivalent of your argument is "oh well, Big data will win because my cousin frank used a spreadsheet to make a million bucks"

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#43

Post by PhantomGremlin »

raldi wrote: post #23
briantakita2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the info. I'll stop doing that.

It's a pretty transparent attempt at reverse psychology, and a form of vote-begging. Intstead try, "I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this, but..."

> It's a pretty transparent attempt at reverse psychology

It reminds me of slashdot. I recall seeing countless "+5 Insightful" posts that began with: "I'm sure I'll be downvoted for this ...".

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#44

Post by ElliotH »

briantakita2 wrote: post #25
Sanddancer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, cancer occurs in healthy ecosystems. The process of tumorgenesis has a lot of variables that we're still unwinding. There is another cancer out there that is deadlier, and makes a lot of people a lot of money too through questionable means. It goes by names of holistic medicine and "questioning big medicine". It's a gang of the uninformed, led by charlatans and frauds preying on the sick and the dying, spewing t…

I'm a programmer who eats healthy & practices yoga. I don't make money from cancer patients. You are demonizing many techniques. Are you saying that there is only one way to medicine, and that is large drug companies & established professional organizations? How do new practices & techniques get off the ground in such an environment? Is it possible to be healthy & treat disease independent of these companies in your…

> Also, where is the archeological evidence of cancer epidemics in ancient times?

Read "The Cancer Chronicles" - George Johnson for a really interesting few chapters on dinosaur cancer.

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#45

Post by colinbartlett »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #40
dghughes wrote: post #5

Quite sad yet more women will die of heart disease than breast cancer. Although I do like her request: >Promise me, I told my friends and family, that you'll never say that I died after “fighting a courageous battle with breast cancer.” This tired, trite line dishonors the dead and the dying by suggesting that we, the victims, are responsible for our deaths or that the fight we were in was ever fair. And the slamming…

This is what disgusts me most with Komen's annual "save the boobies" campaign. It really turned into a circus when they started smearing their marketing gimmick over professional athletes and garbage cans. It speaks to the shallowness of American culture that diseases can be "marketed" for the sake of the almighty buck.

Check out the documentary Pink Ribbons, Inc. which aims to expose that exact phenomenon. Trailer: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3QPZfcYTUaA

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#46

Post by briantakita »

yetanother123 wrote: post #39
briantakita wrote: post #7

I hate to say this (& will be downvoted), but our obsession with reductionist thinking blinds us to the actual causes of cancer. Just like unit tests blind the programmer from how the system works. From a holistic perspective, cancer is caused by an acidic, low oxygen environment or "stagnant energy". Emotional well being, energy work, & massage therapy has also been anecdotally reported by practitioners to cause can…

From a holistic perspective, you are an ill informed peddler of bullcrap. Now before you criticize me for "lack of studies" to back up my claim, please understand that you are making a fool of yourself.

What am I peddling? I have nothing to sell you except my programming services.

I don't care if I'm "wrong" because this is a topic of exploration. People have to be willing to be "wrong" to challenge conventional wisdom leading to new understanding.

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#47

Post by briantakita »

yetanother123 wrote: post #42
briantakita2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see how it's perceived that way. Fwiw, that was my frustration of down votes for unpopular, well meaning, statements. Thank you for the communication & attitude tip. I'll adopt it.

Except - your statements might be well meaning, but they are a) inflammatory b) poorly formulated and c) not backed by any kind of evidence. You keep referring to programming, but the equivalent of your argument is "oh well, Big data will win because my cousin frank used a spreadsheet to make a million bucks"

a: It's only inflammatory because there's a strong bias

b: It's only "poorly formulated" because the prevailing opinion isn't critical of western medicine

c: Discussions of conjecture are allowed. At this point, the causes cancer is conjecture, as the isolated causes have been elusive despite the billions poured into research

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#48

Post by maxerickson »

briantakita wrote: post #47
yetanother123 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except - your statements might be well meaning, but they are a) inflammatory b) poorly formulated and c) not backed by any kind of evidence. You keep referring to programming, but the equivalent of your argument is "oh well, Big data will win because my cousin frank used a spreadsheet to make a million bucks"

a: It's only inflammatory because there's a strong bias b: It's only "poorly formulated" because the prevailing opinion isn't critical of western medicine c: Discussions of conjecture are allowed. At this point, the causes cancer is conjecture, as the isolated causes have been elusive despite the billions poured into research

How do you fit the BRCA genes into your anti reductionist framework?

They are, at a minimum, highly specific predictors.

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#49

Post by briantakita »

sgift wrote: post #37
briantakita2 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a programmer who eats healthy & practices yoga. I don't make money from cancer patients. You are demonizing many techniques. Are you saying that there is only one way to medicine, and that is large drug companies & established professional organizations? How do new practices & techniques get off the ground in such an environment? Is it possible to be healthy & treat disease independent of these companies in your…

> I'm a programmer who eats healthy & practices yoga. I don't make money from cancer patients. That is very noble of you and I read an implied hypothesis that the approach used by "large drug companies" and "established professional organizations" is worse than yours because their motives are less noble (e.g. companies want to make money, organizations want to further an agenda etc.), but a hypothesis alone is worthl…

I'm not a practitioner so I'm not going to make any studies.

As far as the holistic crowd, many are artsy people, with a wide range of interests, who have little interest in creating scientific studies. They have to earn a living, which is often difficult. Yes, there is also quackery, though I suspect there are some nuggets of gold in these practices.

Among the scientists, it feels like there is a strong sentiment against such holistic practices & a perception that the practitioners are scammers. Judging from the reaction to me in this discussion, it would take a brave scientist to stick out his/her neck to spend years, money, & reputation to research such practices; when Bayer is offering a large grant to study their drugs.

There's an old IT saying, "Nobody got fired for using Microsoft". Wouldn't the same apply here?

Re: As I lay dying: Final op-ed from LA Times journalist Laurie Beckland

#50

Post by falcolas »

webwanderings wrote: post #2

Excerpt: We now know that breast cancer is not one disease. What works for one person might not for another: There is no one “cure.” We are each, in effect, one-person clinical trials. Yet the knowledge generated from those trials will die with us because there is no comprehensive database of metastatic breast cancer patients, their characteristics and what treatments did and didn't help them. In the Big Data-era, th…

Government regulation of how your personal information is created and stored makes such a database infeasibly difficult to create and maintain.

The regulation is good, in that it protects an individual's privacy from those who could harm them with it (for example, the insurance industry, the paparazzi, your employers), but it also harms initiatives which aim only for good. Unfortunately, we have to account for the worst actors when creating and regulating something.

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