Wonder how this would compare with Bloom Energy Server[1]
I recall Apple made some purchases or investments in these products.
Tesla Motors Announces a New Home Battery
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Re: Tesla Motors Announces a New Home Battery
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
But still the question is, why would I want that? I'm all for distributed power generation, but it can still be optimized better when it's connected to a grid.
And fail hard too - blackout (then brownout) are more and more a concern. Then there's the question of the power price. I don't think the battery will be cheap when revealed, but after a while, they will and help us with solar/wind created energy.
> And fail hard too - blackout (then brownout) are more and more a concern.
Maybe I'm just spoiled by the German power grid. As far as I can remember I only a single blackout of 30 minutes in the last 15 years (some time around 2008).
Re: Tesla Motors Announces a New Home Battery
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well. Broadband is available wirelessly either via cell, wifi, or satellite, so there's not a requirement for a physical connection. Water and sewer have localized options with wells and septic, but they are also extremely inexpensive to build and maintain and have a relatively small environmental impact. Electricity, on the other hand, has no viable localized option today. It's also the only one of these that has a…
significant drop in efficiency due to the distribution itself This is usually less than the efficiency drop involved in a round trip through a battery. It's not as big a factor as you think.
I'm not just talking about electrical loses, though that is a factor. Having to build 2-3 times the capacity because power generation can't be distributed throughout the day is a huge inefficiency.
Re: Tesla Motors Announces a New Home Battery
#44So, where does lithium come from? It comes from the Earth, of course, but it doesn't require strip mining or blowing the tops off mountains like other resources do...most often, lithium is found in briny underground ponds. The liquid is pumped out and left to dry in the sun. TANSTAAFL https://duckduckgo.com/?q=lithium+pond+photos&iax=1&ia=image... Mining is mining. There isn't a "green" form. Tearing holes in the ear…
You can get energy out of a lithium battery several times, which puts it well ahead of tearing holes in the earth to mine coal.
No, it's not permanently "off the grid" as it depends utterly on the whole industrial infrastructure, but it not continually tied to the grid like a power line running to a coal-fired power station.
Re: Tesla Motors Announces a New Home Battery
#45Go go Musk you bloody champion. If we can harness the sun, waves and wind and store it in batteries, and perhaps making those batteries is bad, it's a better solution than continually burning fossil fuels that are destroying our forests, species, economies, and faith in humanity. I say keep doing what you're doing (unless I'm proved wrong).
Re: Tesla Motors Announces a New Home Battery
#46What would be the advantage of these LiPo batteries over traditional lead-based batteries? In car's, I understand weight (and volume) are really important, but for stationary usage these seem way more expensive / Wh stored?
I'm also curious about their lifetime. My laptop batteries are pretty weak after three or four years. It's much easier to justify $thousands as a one-time purchase than $thousands/year. For many of its applications, this is going to have to beat a generator. Which, come to think of it, probably means that if they're pitching this as a way off the grid it is precisely because it won't be even remotely competitive with a generator.
Re: Tesla Motors Announces a New Home Battery
#47What would be the advantage of these LiPo batteries over traditional lead-based batteries? In car's, I understand weight (and volume) are really important, but for stationary usage these seem way more expensive / Wh stored?
I think this is a very important question. In raw $/Wh lead acid wins hands down, so it might be due to other characteristics such as number of cycles that can be run, and peak load characteristics?
Here is an overview of estimated cost for various battery types, does not include LiPo however. http://www.batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/cost_of_power
Re: Tesla Motors Announces a New Home Battery
#48What would be the advantage of these LiPo batteries over traditional lead-based batteries? In car's, I understand weight (and volume) are really important, but for stationary usage these seem way more expensive / Wh stored?
Cars need tremendously high drain for brief periods to start the engine, especially under adverse conditions like winter when oil starts out being cold and less viscous. They also generally don't deep drain the battery. The ability to be optimized for those constraints plus their simplicity and low cost is why they still own that market. This is not my field, but I'm not aware of any battery chemistry that could conceivably compete with them, and because of their lead we'd like an alternative if there was one.
Re: Tesla Motors Announces a New Home Battery
#49Sure, Musk makes it sound sexy, but do we really need to use Lithium in a stationary application? I'd probably be happier with a battery that weighs twice as much but costs half as much. Those might not be the exact tradeoffs, but that's the general idea. However, I don't know much about the details of battery technology, so I could be completely wrong. If traditional technologies such as lead-acid were up to the tas…
Lithium batteries are not only lighter, but smaller. The typical home today to go off grid in the U.S. is a tiny house or a motorhome. The reason is, it's very cost prohibitive for the amount of power you need. Batteries are the most expensive part of that equation. If you live in a 3000 sq foot house and run a $250 per month electric bill, it might take 50 $130 golf cart batteries to power your house for a day or two, and you replace them every 4-5 years. Or you could go with Iron Edison batteries that should last a lifetime. They are equivalent to about 4 golf cart batteries, and the only requirement is to re-fill them with liquid. They cost about $4,000 each, and are yet still very heavy. The lithium batteries will take up about 1/5 the size and even less weight, and should last much longer than the golf cart batteries, but not as long as the Iron Edison. But space and weight requirements down so much will bring down costs with overseas shipping and trucking bills to a minimum compared with the alternatives. Think what great success in small batteries has done for cell phones. Not that your home needs to be mobile, but I see cars with solar panels and homes with solar shingles... both always charging.... as a great use of the sun as an energy source.
Re: Tesla Motors Announces a New Home Battery
#50Why is living off the grid the main objective here? I live in a suburban area that occasionally has power outages. Right now I'm considering the purchase of whole house generator but if I could have a battery instead I'd do it.