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Elementary OS Freya Beta 2

blog.elementaryos.org

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Re: Elementary OS Freya Beta 2

#41

Post by justin66 »

bpeebles wrote: post #21
meatfuck wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By putting cheaters in quotes, you're putting words into their mouths. I didn't find the word cheaters on that page. They are making a solid point about the cost of open source software and about how free software isn't free.

The another blog post originally[1] had the phrase: "We want users to understand that they’re pretty much cheating the system when they choose not to pay for software." And like, they have this on their home page: "100% Free elementary OS is completely free, both in terms of pricing and licensing." So it's weird to mention cheating or talk about making it harder to download for $0 while talking up the free pricing in…

The statement on that page that I find most bothersome:

If we want to see the world of open source software grow, we should encourage users to pay for its development; otherwise it’ll be underfunded or developers will have to resort to backdoor deals and advertising. And nobody wants that future.

There really are distros that have a business model which isn't shady. It's a lot of work to do something like have a free version and an enterprise version, you have to do boring things like sell and market and support, but those sorts of things don't represent some kind of Open Source apocalypse.

There are even distros that have a business model of asking for donations without being all passive-aggressive about it...

Re: Elementary OS Freya Beta 2

#42

Post by [deleted] »

psgbg wrote: post #30
nickysielicki wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The elementary devs are idiots for not thinking about what they wanted to get out of this project in the first place. Let's take a look at other open source monetizers: * Red Hat - Provide enterprise support. * Canonical - Provide dumb cloud services and enterprise support * Docker - Provide enterprise support. Where does Elementary fit into any of these models? Oh it doesn't? Then what in god's name were you thinkin…

Sorry I don't follow you for the first part. >So when Lubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Linux Mint, and Ubuntu all exist entirely for free, and this similar product (but more hipster) comes along, why were the "cheaters", expected to know that this one intended to charge them? Look I don't like the "cheater" part more than you do yet I consider a bad way to express what they intended to say and not a mere insult. Now what L…

[deleted]

Re: Elementary OS Freya Beta 2

#43

Post by [deleted] »

psgbg wrote: post #39
nickysielicki wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The elementary devs are idiots for not thinking about what they wanted to get out of this project in the first place. Let's take a look at other open source monetizers: * Red Hat - Provide enterprise support. * Canonical - Provide dumb cloud services and enterprise support * Docker - Provide enterprise support. Where does Elementary fit into any of these models? Oh it doesn't? Then what in god's name were you thinkin…

After reading what said tree_of_item, I think tree_of_item is right. >I'm toying with the idea right now of registering geteos.com and linking to images of Elementary without an option to pay just as a "Fuck You" to these guys. That does not do any favor to anyone. Please put the bar of the discussion a little higher. You have right to be upset by their wording use. You don't like it expose your arguments. If you are…

[deleted]

Re: Elementary OS Freya Beta 2

#44

Post by forgotpasswd3x »

krisgenre wrote: post #34
Siyo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's your argument, then why do we allow thousands of companies to base their proprietary web applications on the FOSS stack? How many of these companies would even exist today without Linux or Ruby or MySQL/Postgres? How much do companies contribute back to these projects? Why is it so bad if elementary OS is based on Debian, but it's completely fine when some startup runs on Debian servers?

Not everyone goes around calling people who download free software for free as cheaters. All this backlash is because of the attitude they are showing towards non paying customers.

Unless I'm mistaken, they didn't call people who download free software for free cheaters.

Re: Elementary OS Freya Beta 2

#45

Post by anonbanker »

nickysielicki wrote: post #27
psgbg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that was a poorly transmitted message and an overblown story. Probably it should be read as "taking advantage of the system". Look run an Open Source project is costly, as much as making any other kind of software. Or you throw money developing it or time (which can be translated to money). They release the source code of everything, plus is GPL so it's free* software as stated by the FSF (but they have priva…

The elementary devs are idiots for not thinking about what they wanted to get out of this project in the first place. Let's take a look at other open source monetizers: * Red Hat - Provide enterprise support. * Canonical - Provide dumb cloud services and enterprise support * Docker - Provide enterprise support. Where does Elementary fit into any of these models? Oh it doesn't? Then what in god's name were you thinkin…

> So when Lubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Linux Mint, and Ubuntu all exist entirely for free

it's funny that you mentioned distributions that all require funding from Canonical (or other companies) in order to survive. You would've been better off using Arch, Gentoo, Debian, etc.

Re: Elementary OS Freya Beta 2

#46

Post by [deleted] »

anonbanker wrote: post #45
nickysielicki wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The elementary devs are idiots for not thinking about what they wanted to get out of this project in the first place. Let's take a look at other open source monetizers: * Red Hat - Provide enterprise support. * Canonical - Provide dumb cloud services and enterprise support * Docker - Provide enterprise support. Where does Elementary fit into any of these models? Oh it doesn't? Then what in god's name were you thinkin…

> So when Lubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Linux Mint, and Ubuntu all exist entirely for free it's funny that you mentioned distributions that all require funding from Canonical (or other companies) in order to survive. You would've been better off using Arch, Gentoo, Debian, etc.

[deleted]

Re: Elementary OS Freya Beta 2

#47

Post by nickysielicki »

anonbanker wrote: post #45
nickysielicki wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The elementary devs are idiots for not thinking about what they wanted to get out of this project in the first place. Let's take a look at other open source monetizers: * Red Hat - Provide enterprise support. * Canonical - Provide dumb cloud services and enterprise support * Docker - Provide enterprise support. Where does Elementary fit into any of these models? Oh it doesn't? Then what in god's name were you thinkin…

> So when Lubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Linux Mint, and Ubuntu all exist entirely for free it's funny that you mentioned distributions that all require funding from Canonical (or other companies) in order to survive. You would've been better off using Arch, Gentoo, Debian, etc.

There is no pure distribution that is free from any funding besides maybe Debian+Hurd.

I made a point to pick distributions that are merely a base Ubuntu install strapped with different default desktop environments because that's all that ElementaryOS is.

Re: Elementary OS Freya Beta 2

#48

Post by spinatelli »

I am an elementary OS user and I'm a cheater. Well, kind of..I installed Freya when it started being developed and am following it's development. To those people who say that it's just a "skin" on top of Ubuntu, and that they shouldn't take let people pay for the work of others I say: then Ubuntu shouldn't take donations for the work of Debian. Then Debian shouldn't take donations for the work of the kernel developers. Then no-one should take money from anyone, unless he's developing a single library that's not dependent on anything. Also, if eOS is only a skin for Ubuntu, then Ubuntu is just a skin for Debian, with its fancy Unity and other visual stuff..right? Nah. If you cared to try, you would have seen why people like it. Because it's polished. Because it's lightweight. Because there's care in the details. Basically, everything that's missing from other DEs.

The wording in the post sure is wrong, but hey, they're not PR people and it's easy to upset people on the internet. I don't feel like a cheater, but I feel a bit guilty to not have donated to a project I use and like (even though I submit bugs and stuff), and I think that is the feeling they wanted to give users that don't donate. People should be aware that if you don't have some guy with a load of money that pays for development, or some other kind of business that sustains your product, you're dependent on donations to keep the project growing. Also, if you're not helping in any way (bugs, patches, desing,..), a donation rewards someone else's work on important stuff (also upstream projects!)

Re: Elementary OS Freya Beta 2

#49

Post by matrixritter »

Selling free software is perfectly legal as long as you provide the source code. That's what Stallman itself said countless number of times. The "free" in free software stands for "freedom", not "free beer".

I definitely accept this way of bringing money in the project. Software development is time-intensive labour and time is money. You all know that, do you?

Some mentioned "Let the business-people pay" (better known as "Open Core"-model). This is only working if businesses are interested. Elementary OS doesn't target business usage or has business-relevant elements, so that will go nowhere.

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