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Free Tax Software Is Bad

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Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad

#41

Post by ahallock »

MayanAstronaut wrote: post #39
ahallock wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't you, if that were your business model? Let's blame TurboTax when it's legislators selling their power. They could, you know, be representatives of the people and not be influenced by TurboTax. Plus, that article talks about TurboTax lobbying against the government providing their own tax software, nothing about making returns simpler. Why would a government-run service be simpler? I'm sure TurboTax wants to…

That's like saying it was not the Confederacy's fault for trying to stop the Thirteenth Amendment because it ruined their 'business model' too. If a business pays money to make anyone's life harder then they are bad.

What does that say about the government then? They are complicit. The government is accepting money to make people's lives harder.

Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad

#42

Post by clogston »

chrisbennet wrote: post #4

I don't feel bad for Intuit maker of TurboTax. Intuit has spent millions lobbying against tax reform that would make filing simpler. http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/27/turbotax-maker-funnels-mill...

Oh believe me I don't either. It's horrible an industry can crop up to assist with government inefficiency and eventually become powerful enough to keep the inefficiency in place.

Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad

#43

Post by gergles »

wsha wrote: post #25

Interesting point. For the past few years, I have printed out my return and mailed it in because that is free and e-filing costs money. I do it partly because it is cheaper but also partly because I find it sad that e-filing is not easier and more cost effective for the government to handle than a paper submission (if it is, it is sad that the government is not incentivizing it through cost). Maybe the government jus…

They DO have a standardized submission protocol, you just can't send things to it without a certified client program.

They offer a truly free e-file solution (for Federal): https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/#/fd. Part of the deal for getting all the paid clients certified was that companies had to provide this product for free.

Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad

#44

Post by clogston »

ctdonath wrote: post #30

Complaining something is bad because the low/free price makes crime feasible is...baffling. Like banning spoons because they're cheap, making it easier to get fat. The USA does provide free tax software: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Free-File:-Do-Your-Federal-Taxes-for-...

I never advocated banning anything. The argument is closer to "cheap, high calorie low nutrition food is leading to an obesity epidemic." Tax fraud costs taxpayers billions of dollars[0]. There are surely many ways to combat this, but the correlation between fraud and it being free to attempt fraud en masse is real.

The link you provided points to industry participants in the Free File Alliance[1]. Some skeptics believe the industry has this program to appease the government enough to not pursue tax software created by the government. If you're one of the folks who believe we should have a more european-style system, participating in FFA probably works against that goal (I don't know that that's your stance just throwing it out there for others to consider)

I think it's also interesting from a business case study. I tried to make the argument that tax software isn't cheap to produce. What's the right way for competition to blossom if the cost to users is "free" and the revenue is made up via other less than savory means? Does small-guy competition have to resort to the same tactics?

[0] http://www.forbes.com/sites/leonardburman/2012/05/28/billion...

[1] http://freefilealliance.org/

Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad

#45

Post by marknutter »

chrisbennet wrote: post #4

I don't feel bad for Intuit maker of TurboTax. Intuit has spent millions lobbying against tax reform that would make filing simpler. http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/27/turbotax-maker-funnels-mill...

That seems like a pretty simplistic conclusion to make. Do you really think, given the recent embarrassment that was the ACA enrollment website, Intuit is worried the Government will come up with better software to file taxes than they have? It makes more sense to me that Intuit is worried the Government will shut out alternatives once they put their tax filing service online by making it the only way people can e-file, and that it will only be "better" because it will involve further reach of the Government into our personal financial information. I would absolutely spend millions to lobby against that potential outcome if I were them and I'm glad they do. If we have tax reform, I'd rather it be a complete overall of the tax system to make it simpler rather than spend millions allowing the Government fumble around trying to make software that helps people navigate the laughably complex tax system they were responsible for creating in the first place.

Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad

#46

Post by pXMzR2A »

> Creating good tax software is hard.

This is called strategically reframing the issue.

The problem with tax software is not that it is hard to write, it's that it should never have been needed in the first place.

Tax laws work for large corporations who can hire teams of lawyers to find loopholes in them and fail people who just need to do their taxes. This is a policy issue that cannot and should not be worked around using software, proprietary or open source alike.

Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad

#47

Post by chrisbennet »

marknutter wrote: post #45
chrisbennet wrote: post #4

I don't feel bad for Intuit maker of TurboTax. Intuit has spent millions lobbying against tax reform that would make filing simpler. http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/27/turbotax-maker-funnels-mill...

That seems like a pretty simplistic conclusion to make. Do you really think, given the recent embarrassment that was the ACA enrollment website, Intuit is worried the Government will come up with better software to file taxes than they have? It makes more sense to me that Intuit is worried the Government will shut out alternatives once they put their tax filing service online by making it the only way people can e-fi…

The tax reform that they lobbied against would have made it similar to the way some other countries do it:

The IRS sends you a form with all the numbers filled in. After all, for many people, the IRS already has that information.

Here's Norway's version:

"You will receive a tax return from the Norwegian Tax Administration in March/April if you work in Norway or on the Norwegian continental shelf. The tax return gives an overview of your income, deductions, assets and debts for the last income year.

You must check that the information in the tax return is correct and complete. You do not need to submit it if there are no changes to be made."

http://www.skatteetaten.no/en/International-pages/If-you-wor...

Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad

#48

Post by tobylane »

marknutter wrote: post #45
chrisbennet wrote: post #4

I don't feel bad for Intuit maker of TurboTax. Intuit has spent millions lobbying against tax reform that would make filing simpler. http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/27/turbotax-maker-funnels-mill...

That seems like a pretty simplistic conclusion to make. Do you really think, given the recent embarrassment that was the ACA enrollment website, Intuit is worried the Government will come up with better software to file taxes than they have? It makes more sense to me that Intuit is worried the Government will shut out alternatives once they put their tax filing service online by making it the only way people can e-fi…

>it will involve further reach of the Government into our personal financial information.

The system many other countries have, such as the example given for Norway, involves them filling the data you intend to give to them. If you supply your own data then you may have to give proof. I don't see the difference in what they end up knowing.

Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad

#49

Post by anonbanker »

I would like to take this moment to encourage HN readers to consult Wikipedia in order to determine the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance, and adjust their returns accordingly.

Remember: tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance is discouraged.

Re: Free Tax Software Is Bad

#50

Post by wsha »

gergles wrote: post #43
wsha wrote: post #25

Interesting point. For the past few years, I have printed out my return and mailed it in because that is free and e-filing costs money. I do it partly because it is cheaper but also partly because I find it sad that e-filing is not easier and more cost effective for the government to handle than a paper submission (if it is, it is sad that the government is not incentivizing it through cost). Maybe the government jus…

They DO have a standardized submission protocol, you just can't send things to it without a certified client program. They offer a truly free e-file solution (for Federal): https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/#/fd . Part of the deal for getting all the paid clients certified was that companies had to provide this product for free.

Indeed, I use and appreciate freefillableforms.com. Sorry, I should have clarified that I was talking about the state government tax filing process not having a free electronic submission process (at least for the three states I have filed in recently).
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