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Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

spiegel.de

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Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#41

Post by bayesianhorse »

amirmc wrote: post #29
bayesianhorse wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. government, for all its weaknesses, is providing their citizens with freedom and liberties as good or better than most other countries. The NSA does have democratic oversight. It is controlled by the executive, legislative and judicative branches of the system. That this control is inadequate in our view, doesn't matter for the question whether or not the NSA is part of a democratic system.

> "That this control is inadequate in our view, doesn't matter for ... a democratic system." It absolutely matters. Without those controls you have a democracy in name only. You could quite happily rig elections, arrest opponents, suppress the population etc, while still claiming to be 'democratic'.

That omission of a few crucial words from my comment is almost malicious. I didn't say that the inadequacy doesn't matter for the democratic system, but rather that it doesn't matter for the question if the NSA is a part of such a system.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#42

Post by bayesianhorse »

Wilya wrote: post #32
bayesianhorse wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can they provide adequate defenses without having the best offensive hackers? At the very least, penetration testing is an indispensable tool in cyber security. Also, surveillance of criminal and terrorist organizations without offensive capabilities is impossible.

I have a hard time seeing how spying on European officials will help identify criminals and terrorists.

Again, you seem to not understand how I discriminate between means and their use. Spying on European officials is a problem with oversight, not with capabilities. Arguably, European officials are a lot softer targets than a crime cartel or terrorists in this regard.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#43

Post by bayesianhorse »

gondo wrote: post #36
bayesianhorse wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. government, for all its weaknesses, is providing their citizens with freedom and liberties as good or better than most other countries. The NSA does have democratic oversight. It is controlled by the executive, legislative and judicative branches of the system. That this control is inadequate in our view, doesn't matter for the question whether or not the NSA is part of a democratic system.

let me guess, you are american

Actually, no.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#44

Post by bjackman »

th0br0 wrote: post #6
jgrahamc wrote: post #2

There are also additional clues pointing to Regin being a Five Eyes tool: In the QWERTY code, there are numerous references to cricket, a sport that enjoys extreme popularity in the Commonwealth. Given the relative popularity of cricket in the US vs. the rest of the world, it's more likely that this was written outside the NSA.

In the PDF (who's ever shipped binary as text in a pdf btw?) [1] they argue that it might be related to Australia; who knows... [1] http://www.spiegel.de/media/media-35668.pdf

Also "source code"...

This is clearly not source code.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#45

Post by DavideNL »

US spying on allies, what else is new? Wasn't most of this already known? From wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regin_(malware)#Known_attacks_... :

`Der Spiegel reported in November 2014.......`

`Fox IT found Regin on the computers of one of its customers, and according to their analysis parts of Regin are mentioned in the NSA ANT catalog under the names "Straitbizarre" and "Unitedrake".`

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#46

Post by cyphunk »

It is worthwhile to apply the same scepticism for placement of attribution as was applied with the Sony hack. In the latter many security analysts question NK attribution based on the similarity of code argument given by the US -- pointing out that the code base was in the wild for a long time, could be purchased on black market or reverse/reengineered after picking up the malware from a vulnerable machine.

Shouldn't we also assume that this malware, having been in the wild for "10 years", could have simply been modified and thrown into the NSA tool chest? When applying the same level of scepticism from the Sony hack, nothing in this article represents real proof to counter relevant arguments against US attribution.

Regardless, the Spiegel assumptions or slant is worthy if for nothing else than to teach everyone the issues with attribution, whether applied to greater or lesser evils.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#47

Post by happyscrappy »

DavideNL wrote: post #45

US spying on allies, what else is new? Wasn't most of this already known? From wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regin_(malware)#Known_attacks_... : `Der Spiegel reported in November 2014.......` `Fox IT found Regin on the computers of one of its customers, and according to their analysis parts of Regin are mentioned in the NSA ANT catalog under the names "Straitbizarre" and "Unitedrake".`

Has Speigel reported on the ubiquitous US spy stations peppered throughout Europe? Have they speculated on why Europe does not close them?

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#48

Post by teamhappy »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #10

My current opinion on government hacking is, that I actually want democratic government to be the biggest meanest hackers of them all. The alternative, unfortunately, is that either organized crime or non-democratic governments (or a combination of both) would be the biggest meanest hackers. And hacking doesn't really scale. Mass surveillance just through attacking individuals with malware isn't possible, because of…

Not sure why people vote you down for sharing your opinion. Having said that, your logic is fundamentally flawed. Governments have to either focus on attacking or defending. Focusing on attacking means keeping a lid on vulnerabilities, which weakens the security of citizens and corporations inside their own country. Focusing on defending means disclosing those vulnerabilities in order to protect everybody, which also means those vulnerabilities can't be used in attacks anymore. You can't really have both.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#49

Post by Padding »

raverbashing wrote: post #34
virtualritz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define 'democratic government'. This term is a euphemism nowadays in the West. E.g.: http://www.salon.com/2013/08/17/chomsky_the_u_s_behaves_noth...

I wonder if Chomsky would have that liberty of critique in any other country...

What difference does freedom make if society is engineered accordingly so that anything but the party line will be lost in the noise? Other than for possible riots, bloodshed and long-term sustainability, is that in any way distinguisable from a "non-free" form of government?

Besides, freedom is only necessary for democracy, not sufficient. So his points all remain valid.

Re: Source Code Similarities Between NSA Malware and 'Regin' Trojan

#50

Post by pXMzR2A »

raverbashing wrote: post #34
virtualritz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define 'democratic government'. This term is a euphemism nowadays in the West. E.g.: http://www.salon.com/2013/08/17/chomsky_the_u_s_behaves_noth...

I wonder if Chomsky would have that liberty of critique in any other country...

> I wonder if Chomsky would have that liberty of critique in any other country...

Yes, he would have. And in many, he would not need it.

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