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IBM says 'several thousand' layoffs on the way

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Re: IBM says 'several thousand' layoffs on the way

#41

Post by FranOntanaya »

huxley wrote: post #23
pkaye wrote: post #20

How many employees does IBM even have in the US anyway? Except for a few research or sales divisions, I'm sure very little is left.

IBM doesn't report its headcount in the US any longer, but in 2009 IBM had approximately 105,000 employees in the US, based on congressional testimony (via this article http://www.computerworld.com/article/2520399/it-outsourcing/... ). IBM has 431,212 employees worldwide (according to their 2013 annual report).

Trying to wrap my mind around the number -- 6 employees per 100,000 people worldwide is equal or higher than the number of physicians per 100,000 in Benin, Ethiopia, Niger, Burkina Faso, Central Africa Republic, Chad, Malawi, Mozambique, Papua New Guinea, Rwanda, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Tanzania, Togo and Zimbabwe.

Re: IBM says 'several thousand' layoffs on the way

#42

Post by bring1 »

DannyBee wrote: post #12
pesenti wrote: post #2

So does that mean we can finally stop listening to Cringely altogether? I am an IBM employee and I can tell you a lot of my fellow IBMers had a really bad week-end because of his ridiculous claims. For context see previous discussion on the 110000 employee layoff that won't happen: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8944637

I don't think today's IBM ever planned to layoff 110k at once. Lay off 10k here, 10k there, call one a workforce restructuring, another "an innovation related rebalancing plan", blah blah blah. It seems highly unlikely to me that IBM would just up and lay off 110k workers. Ignoring any other issues, the political blowback and PR blowback they'd get from politicians would be huge right now. IBM doesn't want to get in…

their stockprice would make a big jump if they could manage to lay off 110k people.

I think it would be a good thing, to streamline their operation.

Re: IBM says 'several thousand' layoffs on the way

#43

Post by jacquesm »

trhway wrote: post #28

The correction is coming, and companies are starting to lay off people (like EBay doing "restructuring"). Some companies do global office "optimization" - i.e. completely closing offices in some countries/locations. Given that IBM commented on such a "baseless and ridiculous" claim puts a lot of foundation under it. Obviously not all the 100K at once. After all laying off people in Germany is completely different pro…

Spin-offs and spin-outs are not normally accounted as lay-offs.

Re: IBM says 'several thousand' layoffs on the way

#44

Post by jacquesm »

bring1 wrote: post #42
DannyBee wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think today's IBM ever planned to layoff 110k at once. Lay off 10k here, 10k there, call one a workforce restructuring, another "an innovation related rebalancing plan", blah blah blah. It seems highly unlikely to me that IBM would just up and lay off 110k workers. Ignoring any other issues, the political blowback and PR blowback they'd get from politicians would be huge right now. IBM doesn't want to get in…

their stockprice would make a big jump if they could manage to lay off 110k people. I think it would be a good thing, to streamline their operation.

You do realize you're talking about 110k people losing their income?

Including dependents (averaging 2.4 / wage earner) that means this would affect ~ 250K people plus those laid off so 350K people.

Funny definition of a 'good thing', there is more to life than stocks.

Re: IBM says 'several thousand' layoffs on the way

#45

Post by wglb »

pesenti wrote: post #2

So does that mean we can finally stop listening to Cringely altogether? I am an IBM employee and I can tell you a lot of my fellow IBMers had a really bad week-end because of his ridiculous claims. For context see previous discussion on the 110000 employee layoff that won't happen: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8944637

I stopped decades ago.

Note that his wikipedia article says he finally figured out "[A] new fact has now become painfully clear to me: you don't say you have the Ph.D. unless you really have the Ph.D."

Rather cringeworthy, I would say.

Re: IBM says 'several thousand' layoffs on the way

#47

Post by stainednapkin »

jacquesm wrote: post #44
bring1 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

their stockprice would make a big jump if they could manage to lay off 110k people. I think it would be a good thing, to streamline their operation.

You do realize you're talking about 110k people losing their income? Including dependents (averaging 2.4 / wage earner) that means this would affect ~ 250K people plus those laid off so 350K people. Funny definition of a 'good thing', there is more to life than stocks.

Yes, "good" can mean many things depending on what the person saying it believes.

Re: IBM says 'several thousand' layoffs on the way

#48

Post by stavrianos »

jacquesm wrote: post #44
bring1 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

their stockprice would make a big jump if they could manage to lay off 110k people. I think it would be a good thing, to streamline their operation.

You do realize you're talking about 110k people losing their income? Including dependents (averaging 2.4 / wage earner) that means this would affect ~ 250K people plus those laid off so 350K people. Funny definition of a 'good thing', there is more to life than stocks.

I inferred a "for IBM" on the back of that sentence. Obviously, shitty for those laid off.

Re: IBM says 'several thousand' layoffs on the way

#49

Post by CHY872 »

aragot wrote: post #27
x0rg wrote: post #18

I think IBM should stop selling the ultra crap software that is selling right now like Websphere commerce and all the crappy enterprisey stuff. They really need something good to change and if layoffs are for the better, it's probably worth trying. If the plan is to keep this stuff going, it's gonna be bad.

Yes the most interesting revelation in Cringely's rumor was that IBM made software. Let's be honest: An big IT product is about 25 programmers and 25 diverse people (incl marketers, designers, accountants) working for 3-10 years. With this you make a GitHub, a Word, an IE. IBM could be owning the planet today. But no, they're in the business of hotels, golf, and conferences.

I think you have an incredibly short-sighted view of the difficulties associated with software engineering. In particular, your view of how hard it is to write large pieces of software seems to be way, way off.

Re: IBM says 'several thousand' layoffs on the way

#50

Post by krschultz »

DannyBee wrote: post #19
krschultz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like laying off 25% of the company is as drastic a measure as you can ever take other than closing up shop. If they were thinking about it, they were not thinking about it lightly. They certainly wouldn't change their mind just because the news leaked.

???? IBM is highly likely to have to lay off that many given the dryup of various markets. When HP splits, it's likely they'll do the same. This is just the way the services market is going. As for whether they'd change, uh, people like their current CEO definitely change their mind based on the way the wind is blowing, and how much crap will hit the fan.

Have you ever thought about the logistics that go into planning a layoff of 25% of the workforce? In order to get the list of who stays and who goes there is a lot of work involved. Many of the people involved in that work end up on the list to get laid off. It's terrible for morale. Once you've gone down that road, you aren't turning back just because someone found out 2 weeks ahead of time.
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