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Ask YC: Will there really always be room for more successful web startups?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Ask YC: Will there really always be room for more successful web startups?

#41

Post by webwright »

"Every idea I think of, someone else has done."

Make a list of 10 absolutely fabulous web products that you love. Now draw a line through all of them that came to market as the first mover. I'll bet you don't draw a single line.

As long as businesses want more money and want to save more time, there is always room for b2b products that can demonstrate good ROI.

On the consumer side, there's certainly plenty of room. I just read that Meebo is reaching 30 million people per month. Twitter is functionally brand new and kicking ass.

The good news is that most consumer sites transition from a "providing value" stance (in the early days) to an "extracting value" stance (in the later days). Later stage consumer sites add more advertising, do more biz dev deals, and overall muddy up their value prop. Meanwhile, the next round of consumer startups leap into the fray with a nimble team, the next rev of web technologies, and a desire to provide value and build something that's better than the big guys. Compuserve, Prodigy, AOL, Friendster, MySpace, Facebook... They are/were all on the same road.

Re: Ask YC: Will there really always be room for more successful web startups?

#42

Post by curi »

akkartik wrote: post #40
hhm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if I didn't express myself correctly. I'm not a native English speaker. I say: you can have a need, but you can have not enough money to pay for a solution to that need. For example, you can say that as there is so much poverty, there is a big need for food so there is a big market for food right? But probably, the sector that is suffering poverty wouldn't make an interesting market, as would not have money to…

The two of you have a disagreement, but it's not here, this is just conflicting names for ideas. Putting words in your mouths: You: if people don't know how to make something cheaply enough it's not a market. Ivan: it could be a market if you solve the technological problem of making it cheaper. You: making food cheaper isn't a market because the poor have no money. Ivan: making food cheaper isn't a feasible market b…

Now that their kids are starting to get laptops, it shouldn't be too long before you could make a web app which helps third-world poor people learn to farm better, or do other types of work more efficiently. It's easy to come up with things which poor people want. And web hosting is cheap enough for targeting them to be feasible.

Re: Ask YC: Will there really always be room for more successful web startups?

#43

Post by icky »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #21

Yes there will always be room for new applications (web or not) or kitchen appliances for that matter. Don't make me think about my kitchen! it's awful! I can't seem to keep it clean and the traditional solution to this problem, marriage, has apparently run its course. My girlfriend is a software geek as well and hates to clean the kitchen (and vacuuming) even more than I do. So where is that long promised robot revo…

> Anonymous hassle free micropayments for instance...

Someone please make this, much lighterweight than PayPal, and saturate the market with it. Add a prepaid micropayment card anyone can buy at a store with cash.

This is one of the things that I have great interest in using (both as a user and as a client), but not so interested in building and running it myself! :-/

Re: Ask YC: Will there really always be room for more successful web startups?

#44

Post by icky »

edu wrote: post #17

I think that yo have replied yourself, 20 years ago there were not microwave ovens! On the XIX century people believed that everything has been invented. Why the net should be different? It is still on a very early stage, we have only seen what it can provide. I think that there is plenty of room for new web startups!

> I think that yo have replied yourself, 20 years ago there were not microwave ovens!

They didn't have microwave ovens in 1987 ?!

"20 years ago" is not a fixed date ;-)

Re: Ask YC: Will there really always be room for more successful web startups?

#45

Post by icky »

Tichy wrote: post #22
brlewis wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The brain plug invention would only increase the need for automated information processing.

Of course, but I would not call it "Web application" anymore. Perhaps brain application?

"Aw, man... BrainBook is down again..."

Re: Ask YC: Will there really always be room for more successful web startups?

#46

Post by icky »

juanpablo wrote: post #32
brlewis wrote: post #18

Get the kitchen analogy out of your brain. Kitchen needs are different from information needs. What information do people want to get? What information do people want to spread? That universe is a lot bigger than your kitchen. Any time you encounter pain or desire (yours or somebody else's) that's information-related, you've stumbled upon the opportunity for a web and/or mobile startup. When you meet that need, peopl…

The Universe IS my kitchen.

> The Universe IS my kitchen.

As long as the kitchen isn't your Universe... :)

Re: Ask YC: Will there really always be room for more successful web startups?

#47

Post by fauigerzigerk »

icky wrote: post #43
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #21

Yes there will always be room for new applications (web or not) or kitchen appliances for that matter. Don't make me think about my kitchen! it's awful! I can't seem to keep it clean and the traditional solution to this problem, marriage, has apparently run its course. My girlfriend is a software geek as well and hates to clean the kitchen (and vacuuming) even more than I do. So where is that long promised robot revo…

> Anonymous hassle free micropayments for instance... Someone please make this, much lighterweight than PayPal, and saturate the market with it. Add a prepaid micropayment card anyone can buy at a store with cash. This is one of the things that I have great interest in using (both as a user and as a client), but not so interested in building and running it myself! :-/

The prepaid card is a good idea. And I wonder whether it is always necessary to authorise individual payments. For something like newspaper articles, payments could be pooled and transferred en bloc via some kind clearing mechanism that doesn't require me to have an account with every magazine or website I read. The seller wouldn't even know who was paying and the clearing institution wouldn't know what exactly is being paid for.

The reason why nobody does it that way is probably that it's difficult to garantee settlement and the credit risk involved. But do we really need such a garantee in cases where no physical goods are delivered? Maybe it's enough if it works in 90 % of all cases. That's more than the rate of legally acquired software licenses today.

Re: Ask YC: Will there really always be room for more successful web startups?

#48

Post by tel »

imgabe wrote: post #29

Each individual mainstream user might have a finite number of needs, but the number of needs of users in aggregate is effectively infinite. I agree that I'd rather use 5-10 great apps than 40-50 marginally useful apps, but why do you think the 5-10 apps you find most useful would be the same 5-10 apps someone else does? No one webapp has to appeal to the entire market to be successful, it just has to appeal to enough…

Social websites refute this a bit. If you want to connect with people then, generally, you need to have a similar package of web apps as they.

Re: Ask YC: Will there really always be room for more successful web startups?

#49

Post by cperciva »

Retric wrote: post #30
cperciva wrote: post #2

Every idea I think of, someone else has done. Maybe your ideas aren't specific enough. Take my own not-yet-launched project ( http://www.tarsnap.com ), for example: Online backups. Lots of people have done those, right? Mozy, Carbonite, iDrive... google can easily find dozens of them. But that's just the "30 thousand feet" view of what I'm doing. I'm not just doing online backups -- I'm doing secure online backups. S…

That sounds a lot like http://www.idrive.com/ or www.evault.com/ and or several other systems out there. Building a secure system is a hard problem and even if you build the best system few people can judge how well your doing. You could market it as "The only 4096 bit system" but you end up with a tiny market segment. I would suggest starting with a secure chat system with good logging options. That way you can reas…

That sounds a lot like http://www.idrive.com/ or www.evault.com/ and or several other systems out there.

As I said, lots of people are doing online backups. Nobody else is doing secure online backups.

Building a secure system is a hard problem

Exactly -- that's why it's something which I can do but nobody else has done yet.

and [...] few people can judge how well your (sic) doing

Fortunately, with a doctorate in Computer Science, as the FreeBSD Security Officer, and as "that guy who found a security flaw in Intel processors a few years ago", I'm ideally positioned to show people what I'm doing right -- and what everyone else is doing wrong.

Is secure online backups a smaller market? Absolutely -- most people don't care about security. That's the price you pay for entering an arena where there are many established companies: The best strategy is to carve off a smaller part of the arena rather than trying to fight for the complete arena.

Re: Ask YC: Will there really always be room for more successful web startups?

#50

Post by eru »

eusman wrote: post #15

Your measures in comparison are totally wrong. Retail products are totally different than software as service which is free. Thus the barrier for the user to try new stuff on the internet is zero comparing to buying something. Also, the barrier to create automobile technology it's obvious very high and discouraging. However, enough costly innovation is occuring from the existing companies. Hubrid cars are becoming re…

He argued that the mental cost constitute a barrier. A barrier of non-zero costs.
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