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By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

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Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#41

Post by danielweber »

brazzy wrote: post #14
SeanDav wrote: post #8

As a teenager I went to an all boys school, so was very shy with women. One day I just decided to get over my fear and resolved to ask for the telephone number of every pretty girl that caught my attention in public, even if they were with other girls. Importantly to the process was that it was never my intention to actually call the girl - just to see what percentage gave me their number. Since the outcome was not i…

The question is how many of those 25% were fake numbers "just to get that creeper off my back". It's nice that you decided to "not be creepy", but it's not you who decides how your behaviour is judged.

Irrelevant: he conquered his fear.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#42

Post by danielweber »

fenomas wrote: post #26
bitL wrote: post #15

He could accelerate his progress if he just did 50 cold calls to random strangers selling diapers a day - he would be super hardened after a week ;-)

Which raises an interesting question - do people with such jobs deal exceptionally well with rejection? I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they do, but then I wouldn't be if they were more than averagely depressed, either. Surely someone must have looked into this.

My first start-up, I was taking phone calls for customer support.

I was shaking the first time I did it, and trying to direct the person to the email address for support. But I was a lot better the next time.

I wasn't assigned to it, I was just nearest the phone, and the phone was ringing and had to be answered, so I answered it.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#43

Post by balabaster »

mod wrote: post #39
balabaster wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked with alongside cold-call sales people - not as a sales person myself. Largely, my observation of them wasn't that they're particularly thick skinned, nor were they particularly desensitized to rejection. The thing that most of them had in common was that they weren't emotionally bound to the outcome. They didn't care if the person said yes or no - except for the endorphin kick they got when they saw their…

People are certainly "out of each other's league," at least in the sense that some people do not measure up to others' desires. Of course, you can't really know what their qualifications are. Only they know, and they're going to run deeper than first impressions. So no, they're not out of your league yet!

Yes, but the whole concept of being out of someone's league has the underlying implication that the person you're considering is better than you somehow.

Just because they're not your cup of tea, or vice versa doesn't make them out of your league, they just make that person different than you. People are people, we all eat, drink, shit and do what we have to do to survive. Even the most "successful" CEO, the Queen of England and the person living on the street has the same basic needs. Everything else is a by-product of our circumstance and the way we choose to live our lives.

Anyway, we're getting off-topic ;)

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#44

Post by mod »

hessenwolf wrote: post #12
phatfish wrote: post #7

If my wife had divorced me and i ended up a crying heap on the floor like this guy i would probably want to try this. Most people are not in that situation though, it's all relative. Fair play to him though.

Don't worry, dude. Give it time. Coming out of any multi-year relationship is normally a shock to the system. The wonderful whiff of want is the fiercest anti-pheromone. Also, a good tip, put a rug on the floor.

This reads like greek to me, or like a Markov bot.

I thought maybe it was a quote, but google has only indexed this page for "wonderful whiff of want."

You coined a phrase, anyway!

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#45

Post by ObviousScience »

balabaster wrote: post #29
jonpress wrote: post #19

I didn't have many friends in school. I never tried to fit in - I found other people in my class to be predictable and uninteresting and it took me too much energy to pretend that I was enjoying their company. I went through several years of school with no friends at all - At times, 'cool' kids would invite me to play sports with them after school but I never did. I spent all my lunch breaks alone programming games o…

If you like a challenge, why did you fold from the challenge of enjoying a sense of community with those that appear uninteresting to you? Everyone has something to learn and something to teach. I bet if you'd stuck it out, there was much you could have learned from them, and them from you. Closing yourself off in a room robs both you and them from a chance to grow.

I hear that a lot, but I just don't have about more than even 30 minutes of pretend interest to give people I find boring.

Maybe I'm an asshole, but I genuinely prefer to just sit alone and think about things than talk to people I find boring, even if they have yet another funny story about something to do with fishing that's slightly different than the others.

This isn't to say I don't go to the bar and chat up people in small time windows, I just don't bother to spend several hours talking to someone I don't find interesting.

I don't see why I should use my time that way.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#46

Post by ryusage »

cLeEOGPw wrote: post #32
thirdtruck wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit (I admit not entirely) like saying that "Maybe all those free-throws you practiced between games didn't score us any actual points." 100% of the women he didn't ask did not give him his number. The exercise served the purpose of pushing him past the fear that would have otherwise paralyzed him during a real request.

The analogy would be to throw the ball, but not look if he missed it or not. It's like practicing free throws by blindly throwing ball to basket's general direction and not knowing of outcome.

If someone is completely terrified of even attempting a free throw, then there's no sense in worrying whether they sink the shot. Until that terror is overcome, the fact that they try at all is a success.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#47

Post by mod »

balabaster wrote: post #43
mod wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are certainly "out of each other's league," at least in the sense that some people do not measure up to others' desires. Of course, you can't really know what their qualifications are. Only they know, and they're going to run deeper than first impressions. So no, they're not out of your league yet!

Yes, but the whole concept of being out of someone's league has the underlying implication that the person you're considering is better than you somehow. Just because they're not your cup of tea, or vice versa doesn't make them out of your league, they just make that person different than you. People are people, we all eat, drink, shit and do what we have to do to survive. Even the most "successful" CEO, the Queen of…

You're digging at that "everyone is unique" vibe, or "everybody wins." I don't really think it's relevant.

I think when people say that, it's typically along the lines of "that person is very [attractive|smart|rich|combo] and could have any of millions of partners at will. I'm unremarkable in all [perceivable|probably-important-to-them] ways, so it's an extreme longshot to pursue them."

Doesn't mean they're not wrong. Everyone has a chance, sure--Beauty and the Beast, right? But they might want to optimize for "people in their league," especially if the fear of rejection is in them like the guy in OP.

...back on topic!

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#48

Post by john_b »

xianshou wrote: post #10

I play Go and chess, and I think of it this way: the best players may have won more than others, but they have also lost more than others, because they have simply played more games. Frequent loss or rejection is a necessary step to goodness. This also applies to business, the opposite sex, and most anything else that might matter to you. Or, to paraphrase many an artist and CEO: if I have not failed today, it means…

To quote Michael Jordan:

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

Willingness to fail is a precondition for learning and growth.

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#49

Post by getsat »

Disruptive_Dave wrote: post #23
thirdtruck wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just finished Waitzkin's The Art of Learning , which discusses exactly that. He makes the point that (IIRC) Michael Jordan made more last-minute, game-winning throws than anyone else on his team, but he also missed the most game-losing ones. He only excelled by overreaching.

http://georgelugojr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/michael-j...

This was actually a Nike commercial, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mMioJ5szc

Re: By Making a Game Out of Rejection, a Man Conquers Fear

#50

Post by rada »

thirdtruck wrote: post #17
brazzy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is how many of those 25% were fake numbers "just to get that creeper off my back". It's nice that you decided to "not be creepy", but it's not you who decides how your behaviour is judged.

That's a bit (I admit not entirely) like saying that "Maybe all those free-throws you practiced between games didn't score us any actual points." 100% of the women he didn't ask did not give him his number. The exercise served the purpose of pushing him past the fear that would have otherwise paralyzed him during a real request.

Except women are people, not inanimate objects to bounce balls off of. Those women did not choose to participate in SeanDav's practice, and it was not cost-free to them to be used and discarded that way.

More to brazzy's point, SeanDav doesn't get to decide how he comes across to people. Pretty young women get hit on constantly and it is really exhausting and demoralizing to be rudely interrupted every five minutes while out in public, by people who pretend to be friendly but clearly have ulterior motives. The girl - who was, by definition, interrupted for the umpteenth time that day - likely considered the interruption unpleasant and at least somewhat creepy. Withdrawing "if the situation becomes uncomfortable" is taking it many, many steps too far and is frankly wishful thinking - people in general, and girls especially, are not socialized to tell people to f--ck off right away so by the time the situation is so uncomfortable that the girl actually asks you to leave her alone, it is way past discomfort for her.

Not to mention that if all you really want to do is practice free-throws, you don't need to bust your way into the most elite basketball court to do it. Nothing wrong with practicing within your league. Why couldn't he get phone numbers from unattractive girls, or boys?

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