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Bioluminescent trees as an alternative to electric lighting

blog.suny.edu

41–50 of 62 posts

Re: Bioluminescent trees as an alternative to electric lighting

#41
There are a lot of problems with this that have been outlined in all these comments, and 99% are true.

I would instead take advantages of photoautrophic organisms that already are bioluminescent like Dinoflagellate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinoflagellate

They can have a startling effect in large numbers and feed themselves with daylight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioluminescence#mediaviewer/Fi...

Some video of their effect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSROHwGaLCg

Re: Bioluminescent trees as an alternative to electric lighting

#42

Why not leave the night sky dark? It's like we have this 30,000 year old phobia that we can't ditch... there are no more tigers lurking in the darkness.

Even if there were, wouldn't a more elegant solution be to engineer glowing tigers?

...perhaps not.

Re: Bioluminescent trees as an alternative to electric lighting

#43
post #37

The processes involved are orders of magnitude below the scale needed to produce usable light. And in the plants it's been tested in, it's also fatal after a short time. These aren't trivial problems, and they're not going to be solved by a designer photoshopping a concept.

Exactly, I once did the calculation, they use the protein luciferase, which requires 1 molecule of Lucferin and 1 molecule of ATP per photon produced! That means if you were to produce say 200 lm (about the output of a 40W incandescent light bulb) you'd need kilo's of ATP and Luciferin a week. Don't expect useful light.

Doing plausibility calculations from another direction--

Let's say that we want to have a glowing forest. The glowing trees will absorb sunlight from a certain area and emit it over the same area with a certain efficiency.

Photosynthesis has an efficiency of between 0.1% and 1%. I don't know what the efficiency of glowing is, so let's assume it's 10%. So your plants will illuminate the area with about 0.01%-0.1% of the intensity of the light which they absorb.

Full daylight is about 100,000 lux, so your forest will be illuminated to somewhere around 10-100 lux, which is somewhere between "twilight" and "a poorly lit room".

It gets even worse if you want your plants to illuminate a larger area than they themselves cover: if you have a plant illuminating (say) 10x more area than it covers (a tree in the middle of an open field, or next to a road), you're down to 1-10 lux, optimistically.

Re: Bioluminescent trees as an alternative to electric lighting

#44

The processes involved are orders of magnitude below the scale needed to produce usable light. And in the plants it's been tested in, it's also fatal after a short time. These aren't trivial problems, and they're not going to be solved by a designer photoshopping a concept.

Reminds me of a "design concept" for a little Nest-shaped box to stick on your window and magically cancel out all street noise. I'm pretty sure this is actually impossible, and is the equivalent of drawing a pegasus and saying "I have this great concept for a novel form of transportation!" i.e. more or less not worth anyone's time, since it's fantasy.

Re: Bioluminescent trees as an alternative to electric lighting

#45
So while we humans use a massive amount of generated electricity to defeat darkness, Jellyfish create their own light deep underwater without solar panels, wind turbines, or hydroelectric dams. Instead, the organism generates power completely autonomously.

They don't need energy, they just generate it autonomously. Why didn't we think of this earlier? The logic is flawless!

Re: Bioluminescent trees as an alternative to electric lighting

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually quite a few scientists tried to stop that kickstarter because of the dangers it could prove to the ecosystem: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2013/jun/0...

That article seems mostly seems worried about future projects. And I'm not sure what scientists you're talking about. Is it this line: > 116 organizations have called for a moratorium on any release of synthetic organisms. The UN convention on Biological Diversity has urged countries to exercise precaution in any release of synthetic organisms to the environment. Well if I click on the link I find a very interesting…

I think that statement is a response to Venter's synthetic bacteria.

Re: Bioluminescent trees as an alternative to electric lighting

#47

The processes involved are orders of magnitude below the scale needed to produce usable light. And in the plants it's been tested in, it's also fatal after a short time. These aren't trivial problems, and they're not going to be solved by a designer photoshopping a concept.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just genetically engineer humans to have better night vision? :P

Re: Bioluminescent trees as an alternative to electric lighting

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually quite a few scientists tried to stop that kickstarter because of the dangers it could prove to the ecosystem: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2013/jun/0...

That article seems mostly seems worried about future projects. And I'm not sure what scientists you're talking about. Is it this line: > 116 organizations have called for a moratorium on any release of synthetic organisms. The UN convention on Biological Diversity has urged countries to exercise precaution in any release of synthetic organisms to the environment. Well if I click on the link I find a very interesting…

"Synthetic biology" in technical usage refers to custom sequences which are written on a computer then chemically assembled ex vivo. This is a widely used technique. It is distinct from the technique of extracting and amplifying a sequence from one organism and inserting it into another, although the results produced can be similar.

Source: I work in a molecular biology lab.

Re: Bioluminescent trees as an alternative to electric lighting

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article seems mostly seems worried about future projects. And I'm not sure what scientists you're talking about. Is it this line: > 116 organizations have called for a moratorium on any release of synthetic organisms. The UN convention on Biological Diversity has urged countries to exercise precaution in any release of synthetic organisms to the environment. Well if I click on the link I find a very interesting…

"Synthetic biology" in technical usage refers to custom sequences which are written on a computer then chemically assembled ex vivo . This is a widely used technique. It is distinct from the technique of extracting and amplifying a sequence from one organism and inserting it into another, although the results produced can be similar. Source: I work in a molecular biology lab.

So let's say there's a gene that might be useful to me. I have a listing of base pairs, but it would be very expensive to extract DNA/RNA from actual specimens. I chemically assemble an exact recreation and inject it. Is this synthetic biology?

Re: Bioluminescent trees as an alternative to electric lighting

#50
post #37

The processes involved are orders of magnitude below the scale needed to produce usable light. And in the plants it's been tested in, it's also fatal after a short time. These aren't trivial problems, and they're not going to be solved by a designer photoshopping a concept.

Exactly, I once did the calculation, they use the protein luciferase, which requires 1 molecule of Lucferin and 1 molecule of ATP per photon produced! That means if you were to produce say 200 lm (about the output of a 40W incandescent light bulb) you'd need kilo's of ATP and Luciferin a week. Don't expect useful light.

Only kilos? Compared to bamboo that actually sounds feasible.
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