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On Interviewing as a Junior Dev

lizmrush.com

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Re: On Interviewing as a Junior Dev

#41

Post by gedrap »

_RPM wrote: post #2

> I did a code challenge that involved ranking soccer teams, and while going over the code a developer at the company asked me if I needed the rules of the game explained to me. While it's a good thing to make sure the candidate understands what the problem is, companies need to be aware that these things carry extra cultural baggage and asking a female candidate if they understand a basic sports rule (or any other m…

Totally agree. There's absolutely nothing sexist about it at all. I am male and there loads of sports I have no idea about the rules.

Now, let's say I stumble across this bit before I interview her. Red flag: tends to treat things as sexist when they clearly are not. Meaning a potential law suit or what not for nothing. Sorry, too big of a liability.

Re: On Interviewing as a Junior Dev

#42

Post by chaoxu »

trentmb wrote: post #27
pookieinc wrote: post #25

This article was interesting to read from my standpoint. I'm currently unemployed and am currently looking for a jr. dev position as well. Background: Received CS degree, have worked for 3 years as a full-stack developer internationally with lots of code written, and am now looking in the Bay Area for front-end developer position. > Red Flag 1: Asking me to dedicate over ten hours to a code challenge before meeting a…

I don't know how to get on the radar of any companies. I'd love to be given a coding challenge. Background: Received Math degree this past summer, 0 years as a full-stack developer. I had supporting coursework in CS, so I'm not completely unfamiliar with programming. All I want is an entry level job...

You could have taken a algorithms class. Since you are from Uiuc, ask people around you for a referral, which would land you a phone interview or coding challenge. Certain companies send out coding challenges. I think Dropbox do.

Re: On Interviewing as a Junior Dev

#43

Post by gedrap »

rurounijones wrote: post #26
butwhy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are quoting is out of context. The sentence prior to the one you quoted mentions her specifically. So the proceeding sentence seems to use her personal experience as a basis to then make a broader claim in a more general context.

Ok, previous sentence. > If your code challenge involves a typically male oriented theme, such as sports, consider changing it to something else. Why not use something more neutral? I did a code challenge that involved ranking soccer teams, and while going over the code a developer at the company asked me if I needed the rules of the game explained to me. Statement of fact, no "feminism" on display, no hint of anger…

>>> If your code challenge involves a typically male oriented theme, such as sports, consider changing it to something else. Why not use something more neutral?

Since when sport is not neutral? The quoted sentence makes it sound as if sports is some rich white dudes privilege. I would understand her if she was asked to sort women by attractiveness.

Re: On Interviewing as a Junior Dev

#44

Post by gedrap »

jarek wrote: post #40
cheepin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the coding challenges because they are hugely asymmetric in effort required between interviewer and interviewee. They usually come as the first or second step (after the phone interview), which means you aren't even really being seriously considered yet. You have to spend several hours working on it while they just have to send the email to whatever their challenge link is. Best case scenario, you wasted those…

My favourite is when the company rejects you with no feedback then asks that you do not post your code for the challenge in your portfolio

Feedback, as discussed a lot, is a dangerous thing. May start endless discussions, trying to see things as racist/sexist/whatnot, and it's meaningless as decision is already made.

Most of the challenges take an hour or two, so not sure how that would benefit your portfolio. In case challenge was longer than that, well, that's a different question (accept it or not).

Re: On Interviewing as a Junior Dev

#45

Post by jarek »

gedrap wrote: post #44
jarek wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favourite is when the company rejects you with no feedback then asks that you do not post your code for the challenge in your portfolio

Feedback, as discussed a lot, is a dangerous thing. May start endless discussions, trying to see things as racist/sexist/whatnot, and it's meaningless as decision is already made. Most of the challenges take an hour or two, so not sure how that would benefit your portfolio. In case challenge was longer than that, well, that's a different question (accept it or not).

I've seen a YC company give a challenge that took a weekend to complete. (Relatively late in the hiring process.) It was interesting and relevant to career goals. I understand the rejection and the lack of feedback, but the do-not-publish request is infuriating. Supposedly the reason is to not give code to other candidates but the companies should be able to detect that trivially by diffing or talking about the code with the candidate.

I've routinely seen coding tasks designed to take a Saturday.

edit: sorry to see your post downvoted, I upvoted it

Re: On Interviewing as a Junior Dev

#46

Post by gedrap »

trentmb wrote: post #27
pookieinc wrote: post #25

This article was interesting to read from my standpoint. I'm currently unemployed and am currently looking for a jr. dev position as well. Background: Received CS degree, have worked for 3 years as a full-stack developer internationally with lots of code written, and am now looking in the Bay Area for front-end developer position. > Red Flag 1: Asking me to dedicate over ten hours to a code challenge before meeting a…

I don't know how to get on the radar of any companies. I'd love to be given a coding challenge. Background: Received Math degree this past summer, 0 years as a full-stack developer. I had supporting coursework in CS, so I'm not completely unfamiliar with programming. All I want is an entry level job...

You should change your attitude a bit. it sounds like you are desperate for a job, while you should be thinking that you need a job which would be mutually beneficial for both sides. The attitude helps a lot in various stages.

You can start by writing some toy application. Simple blog platform is a classic example. Push it to github. Bonus points if you have multiple applications using different languages/frameworks, that shows that you are not one of the devs that learn one thing and use it for the rest of the life.

Good luck.

Re: On Interviewing as a Junior Dev

#47

Post by uptownJimmy »

_RPM wrote: post #2

> I did a code challenge that involved ranking soccer teams, and while going over the code a developer at the company asked me if I needed the rules of the game explained to me. While it's a good thing to make sure the candidate understands what the problem is, companies need to be aware that these things carry extra cultural baggage and asking a female candidate if they understand a basic sports rule (or any other m…

I'm male and pretty athletic, and I would definitely need the rules of soccer explained to me. That game was not played where I grew up.

Re: On Interviewing as a Junior Dev

#48

Post by deciplex »

nandemo wrote: post #35
xixixao wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is purely UK vs US difference: From my experience, companies in the US can pay over $100k to fresh graduates. The same companies pay 30% less in the UK. So the $95k translates to $40k, which is what you'd expect.

I'd say it's US vs rest-of-the-world difference. I recently applied to a senior dev position at the Tokyo branch of a certain American company, which shall remain nameless. They pay 120~160k in the US. They offered me 60k.

I don't think you can lump Tokyo in with the rest of "not-the-US", really, because it's particularly bad here IMO, moreso than mostly anywhere else in the developed world. The market is shallow and the hiring managers are generally clueless. If you're a software developer, living in Japan is bad for your career and probably your health.

Re: On Interviewing as a Junior Dev

#49

Post by hcho »

peteretep wrote: post #9

That's a pretty impressive starting salary range for a junior. a) You must have interviewed exceptionally well, and be in practice "not really" a junior (which would imply Ada are doing an incredible job, and is freakin' awesome), or be bringing to bear some other skills and/or b) Salary range where you are is broken You said the range you got offered was $75-$95, which in Great British Pounds is £47-£60,000, and I'v…

Apples to oranges comparison, really. Give up the job security aspect of British jobs and you'll find out companies are more willing to pay numbers close to what's seen in the US.

Re: On Interviewing as a Junior Dev

#50

Post by gedrap »

What I sometimes don't understand, is the emphasis on being a female / ethnic minority like in this post.

Sure, some people are intolerant, but if you go with 'maybe: being the only female / minority' it gives me a feeling that you expect some special treatment because of your gender or ethnicity.

It gives me a feeling that it is an employee who is a potential liability (e.g. the paragraph about sports 'asking a female candidate if they understand a basic sports rule (or any other male dominated theme) comes across as belittling and sexist'). Do I want a potential law suit or bad press because maybe some one didn't invite her to watch a football game after work or anything like that? Emmm that's a bit of risk.

I understand that sometimes it's tough to be in a minority but it doesn't mean you need to put so much emphasis on it. Just calm down and down assume people are racist by default. Because they are not.

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