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The USA Freedom Act: What's to Come and What You Need to Know

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Re: The USA Freedom Act: What's to Come and What You Need to Know

#41

Post by worklogin »

saraid216 wrote: post #33
ma2rten wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first sentences are: "The USA Freedom Act, the leading contender for NSA reform, is set for a vote this week. The bill has some problems, but is a major step forward for surveillance reform. That's why we're asking you to call your Senator and urge them to support the USA Freedom Act." How much more clear do you want it?

The HN title, which is all I've read so far, leads me to believe this is another Patriot Act. Clicking through, it appears this is also the title of the article, so it's hardly HN trying to editorialize. Since I have enough information to determine that I don't want the Freedom Act to pass, why would I click through to the article?

>The HN title, which is all I've read so far

So you didn't read the article, which was the original complaint of the root comment. If you can't take 30 seconds to read about legislation that could significantly impact the power of the security state to spy on the American public, you're not doing your duty as a citizen.

Re: The USA Freedom Act: What's to Come and What You Need to Know

#42

Post by marcosdumay »

coldpie wrote: post #35
Rapzid wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed this quite a bit recently.. Maybe I'm just older and it has being going on forever. Bills on the surface that look like they are accomplishing what you want, but when you read between the lines they actually give the nod to stuff you don't want to be happening at all. Secret courts? Advocate. Now secret courts are more OK because apparently we reviewed them and decided they are fine with an advocate. Thi…

Rome wasn't built in a day. Legislation is a series of compromises. Think of it more as moving down the field towards your goal against the opposite team, instead of just teleporting there. Specifically, this bill makes phone spying much more onerous, and critically increases transparency which will immediately curtail abuses and fuel further debate. This isn't the last word on the topic.

> This isn't the last word on the topic.

Are you sure about that? Because once such law get effective, replacing it will read like an admission of failure to everybody that helped it pass.

Re: The USA Freedom Act: What's to Come and What You Need to Know

#43

Post by diminoten »

worklogin wrote: post #40
diminoten wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They misrepresent views and lie about legislation. What's honest about that?

That's some nice citations there, buddy. Burden of proof doesn't fall on the accused.

I don't feel obligated to spend time defending my position.

If you're interested, I recommend you check out the EFF's press releases about CISPA, and then compare it to what's on Wikipedia. They just make a number of legal leaps that aren't founded in any kind of law, amounting to a fearmongering argument no more valid than screaming, "BUT FREEDOM!!!!" too loudly for anyone else to object.

Re: The USA Freedom Act: What's to Come and What You Need to Know

#44

Post by diminoten »

deciplex wrote: post #11
diminoten wrote: post #6

Yeah, because the EFF is going to be unbiased when it comes to explaining legislation. I'm so sick of how partisan the EFF has become.

As opposed to...? I guess you are expecting the EFF to be neutral with regard to NSA snooping and data collection, versus NSA not doing any of those things. That's not a reasonable ask, though.

I'm just expecting honesty, is all. I don't feel the EFF is honest in its approach to its stances, and that makes me worry that their positions aren't defensible.

Re: The USA Freedom Act: What's to Come and What You Need to Know

#45

Post by saraid216 »

worklogin wrote: post #41
saraid216 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN title, which is all I've read so far, leads me to believe this is another Patriot Act. Clicking through, it appears this is also the title of the article, so it's hardly HN trying to editorialize. Since I have enough information to determine that I don't want the Freedom Act to pass, why would I click through to the article?

>The HN title, which is all I've read so far So you didn't read the article, which was the original complaint of the root comment. If you can't take 30 seconds to read about legislation that could significantly impact the power of the security state to spy on the American public, you're not doing your duty as a citizen.

Nothing in the title indicated that it was about legislation that could significantly impact the power of the security state to spy on the American public. I thought Obama was legalizing torture.

So why would I read it?

Re: The USA Freedom Act: What's to Come and What You Need to Know

#46

Post by dllthomas »

mgkimsal wrote: post #36
dllthomas wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, though, you lose the thread if you miss any "X is the next version of Y" update. Probably HR-number-hash would be ideal.

or maybe just 'version numbers'. HR3361.4 HR3361.5 HR3361.6 etc Easier for everyone to understand, not just geeks...

People get tempted to play shenanigans like reusing numbers.

Re: The USA Freedom Act: What's to Come and What You Need to Know

#47

Post by mgkimsal »

dllthomas wrote: post #46
mgkimsal wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or maybe just 'version numbers'. HR3361.4 HR3361.5 HR3361.6 etc Easier for everyone to understand, not just geeks...

People get tempted to play shenanigans like reusing numbers.

datetime?

HR3361.20141106142502

almost as bad as hash, but immediately parseable and understood if a version was before or after something else.

Re: The USA Freedom Act: What's to Come and What You Need to Know

#48

Post by calinet6 »

worklogin wrote: post #41
saraid216 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN title, which is all I've read so far, leads me to believe this is another Patriot Act. Clicking through, it appears this is also the title of the article, so it's hardly HN trying to editorialize. Since I have enough information to determine that I don't want the Freedom Act to pass, why would I click through to the article?

>The HN title, which is all I've read so far So you didn't read the article, which was the original complaint of the root comment. If you can't take 30 seconds to read about legislation that could significantly impact the power of the security state to spy on the American public, you're not doing your duty as a citizen.

If you keep this point of view, then no one will do their duty as a citizen.

If you take a systemic stance on improving the problem, then you have a chance at improving the rate at which people do their duty as citizens.

Your choice.

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