don't they know that the inmates will be able to launch missiles by whistling into the phone now?
Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code
41–50 of 56 posts
Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
That population is probably like any other: either programming concepts click for them or they don't. I saw this in freshman year. People either struggled mightily, or nearly not at all. Hence, the huge weed-out factor for the major. All these folks need is exposure.
It isn't so much of it clicking, it is the willingness to put through the effort until it does click. But that willingness comes easier for some people, since they are wired to enjoy it. Others don't enjoy the process of trying something, seeing it fail, trying again, repeat for several hours/days/weeks, then finally getting it to work. It's like some like tomatoes, others don't. If you don't, it is hard to be a food…
Well, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. It's certainly not binary. That is, some just require more effort.
OTOH, as a tutor back in my CS days, I witnessed the difference between those who just needed an occasional nudge and those who really just constantly beat their heads against the wall. It really wasn't that they were unwilling to try. It was more that their minds weren't wired to conceptualize and approach CS-style problem-solving. Sure, I could walk them through a problem, but next time around it was like starting over.
It reminds me of geometry proofs. Some could learn to stumble their way through, while others just glided through almost effortlessly.
So, the stick-to-itness attitude that you mentioned is certainly a requirement that all of us have had to wield at times, but I'm speaking more of the ability to make progress while wielding that attitude.
And, it's not necessarily a matter of intelligence as much as thinking styles. That's the "click" I'm talking about. So, this is not some superiority trip.
In fact, in the context of this discussion, I was actually being optimistic. Some were suggesting that the prisoners couldn't learn to be viable if they were so far behind those who had been doing it since childhood. My take is that if a person has aptitude for it, they can make up a lot of lost ground. Simple exposure might activate them in ways that others who work for years in the field might never achieve.
Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code
#43Hey yall -- I'm a cofounder at Hack Reactor, which wrote the curriculum and is running the program from an instruction and student success standpoint. This is my baby and it's exciting to see it getting some attention this week -- I think that prisons should be schools by default and I hope that public perception changes. AMA if you're curious.
I think this is a wonderful idea. Is there a place one can go to see volunteer opportunities?
Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code
#44So now when I tell friends and relatives who can't get a job that pays more than $12 per hour that they should learn how to code in their spare time, I have more ammunition. My favorite story to relay is an Indian woman whose husband came to the U.S. on an H1B visa. She came here on an unskilled visa. In her spare time at home while she was working as a maid, she taught herself programming. A year later she was makin…
> My favorite story to relay is an Indian woman whose husband came to the U.S. on an H1B visa. She came here on an unskilled visa. In her spare time at home while she was working as a maid, she taught herself programming. A year later she was making $60,000 per year. A few years later, making $80,000 per year.
As a counterpoint, have you thought that it might not be the "ability to code," but rather the "drive to learn" that causes these people to be successful? I think that even if everyone could code, they wouldn't necessarily be successful, whereas someone who had that drive to go out, learn, expose themselves to new ideas, etc. presumably also has the drive to sell themselves and keep pushing.
Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code
#45This is a really great project! I think caring about people in prisons is one of the best ways to show the strength of a society.
I know, the US/Californian prison system has many things to criticize and rant about (and people should!), but here is a great project to face some of those problems. It's really great, but I hope people keep pushing such projects. Prisons will probably never be empty, but setting that goal is always better than surrendering, cause huge costs, both financial and social ones.
I hope such projects set an example for other states and countries.
Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code
#46I have an uncle that spent the better part of a decade in prison because of our idiotic drug laws. While he was in he learned coding (DBase if I recall--it was still popular at the time). He never used it after he got out. Why not? He has a marketable skill now, right? Sure. But nobody wants to hire an ex-con regardless of their skill. I think projects like this are great but we also need to address the problem of be…
>I think projects like this are great but we also need to address the problem of being able to find a job for these guys after they get out. Amen. This is a huge problem and probably a huge part of why recidivism rates are so high. If you can't get a job out of prison and you're low on money it's really easy to get your old drug/weed guy to front goods for you to sell. Instant cash, work on your own time, no backgrou…
You'd not even need a sentencing reform to improve the chances of getting a job.
Cash incentives (e.g. state pays 50% of the income of the employee for a year or two) for employers can be a much better starting point. Or educating prisoners e.g. to become licensed electricians, plumbers, ... like in Germany and then helping them to start their own business when out of jail.
But the US system seems like focused 100% on punishment and generating revenue for private prisons, so I highly doubt this will ever be introduced - there's simply too much money at stake when former inmates actually rehabilitate.
Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I think projects like this are great but we also need to address the problem of being able to find a job for these guys after they get out. Amen. This is a huge problem and probably a huge part of why recidivism rates are so high. If you can't get a job out of prison and you're low on money it's really easy to get your old drug/weed guy to front goods for you to sell. Instant cash, work on your own time, no backgrou…
You'd not even need a sentencing reform to improve the chances of getting a job. Cash incentives (e.g. state pays 50% of the income of the employee for a year or two) for employers can be a much better starting point. Or educating prisoners e.g. to become licensed electricians, plumbers, ... like in Germany and then helping them to start their own business when out of jail. But the US system seems like focused 100% o…
Private prisons? That's a nice touch! Out of curiosity, how does a private prison work? I mean the client is the state or say (if a con has money) I can do his time in private prison with a PS-4, regular medical examinations, internet access (probably monitored), etc.?
Not that it's bad to have civilized prisons, but I'm curious how a private prison operates.
Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
You'd not even need a sentencing reform to improve the chances of getting a job. Cash incentives (e.g. state pays 50% of the income of the employee for a year or two) for employers can be a much better starting point. Or educating prisoners e.g. to become licensed electricians, plumbers, ... like in Germany and then helping them to start their own business when out of jail. But the US system seems like focused 100% o…
Private prisons? That's a nice touch! Out of curiosity, how does a private prison work? I mean the client is the state or say (if a con has money) I can do his time in private prison with a PS-4, regular medical examinations, internet access (probably monitored), etc.? Not that it's bad to have civilized prisons, but I'm curious how a private prison operates.
Nah, government is the client. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison for details.
Of course, this system is very easy to game - in one scandal, judges were bribed by prison operators in order to send kids to jail for stuff like "mocking a principal on myspace". See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal for one of these.
Of course, putting kids in jail for stupid myspace comments will make them responsible adults cough...
Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
You'd not even need a sentencing reform to improve the chances of getting a job. Cash incentives (e.g. state pays 50% of the income of the employee for a year or two) for employers can be a much better starting point. Or educating prisoners e.g. to become licensed electricians, plumbers, ... like in Germany and then helping them to start their own business when out of jail. But the US system seems like focused 100% o…
Private prisons? That's a nice touch! Out of curiosity, how does a private prison work? I mean the client is the state or say (if a con has money) I can do his time in private prison with a PS-4, regular medical examinations, internet access (probably monitored), etc.? Not that it's bad to have civilized prisons, but I'm curious how a private prison operates.
Yes, the client would be the US government or state. Private prisons hold about 8% of prisoners in the US, during 2013 the number of prisoners in private facilities declined by 3%.
Numbers from here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/p13.txt
There are some other problems with perverse incentives in the US incarceration system (businesses are allowed to employ prisoners at low wages), but the "it's all about private prisons" narrative isn't really backed up by the numbers.
If you look at the sort of crimes that people end up getting put into prison for, at least statistically, they aren't Myspace comments.
Re: Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Private prisons? That's a nice touch! Out of curiosity, how does a private prison work? I mean the client is the state or say (if a con has money) I can do his time in private prison with a PS-4, regular medical examinations, internet access (probably monitored), etc.? Not that it's bad to have civilized prisons, but I'm curious how a private prison operates.
Yes, the client would be the US government or state. Private prisons hold about 8% of prisoners in the US, during 2013 the number of prisoners in private facilities declined by 3%. Numbers from here: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/p13.txt There are some other problems with perverse incentives in the US incarceration system (businesses are allowed to employ prisoners at low wages), but the "it's all about privat…
> If you look at the sort of crimes that people end up getting put into prison for, at least statistically, they aren't Myspace comments.
Mostly drug-related stuff, especially victimless crimes such as pure possession without intent to distribute... while Myspace or other cyberbullying can certainly be jail-worthy, a shitload of US prisoners are in for drugs.
imho, the US and every other country in this world should end the "War on Drugs". It has undeniably failed, and costs taxpayers everywhere billions of dollars, in addition to the hundreds of thousands of lives lost alone in Mexico...