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W3C declares HTML5 standard complete

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Re: W3C declares HTML5 standard complete

#41

Post by vec »

ufo wrote: post #38
pjmlp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, IE9+, Firefox, Chrome, and Safari are all basically guaranteed to look at the same page in the same way, and the "toolsmith" parsers like Gumbo or html5lib are all rapidly converging on the standard. So it's finally possible to see a page the way a browser sees it. The web projects I have to take part on, are a distant reality from that description.

Are you talking about inconsistent HTML parsing or inconsistent CSS rendering? The latter is much more of a pita than the former.

Right, this. There's still a lot of experimental features that are implemented differently or not at all in one or more of the big three. But I can't remember the last time that I've had different browsers produce fundamentally different DOM trees from the same document, even when I'm using invalid attributes or made-up tags (coughangularcough).

Re: W3C declares HTML5 standard complete

#42

Post by johansch »

http://www.cnet.com/au/news/html5-is-done-but-two-groups-sti...

""The real problem is of course that the W3C is still copying our work even after we asked them to stop doing that," [Anne] van Kesteren said. It's legal, but "oftentimes it comes pretty close [to] or is actual plagiarism."

It's one of many instances of copying, Hickson said. "For reasons that defy my understanding, the W3C staff refuse to treat the WHATWG as a peer organization" that relies on WHATWG's work, he said. Instead, it creates its own copies of some standards. "They'll eventually say they have a 'final' version, and then they'll stop fixing bugs. It's very sad."

Re: W3C declares HTML5 standard complete

#43

Post by deskamess »

I was hoping they would add file api support for downloading to non sand boxed environment with mandatory user interaction prompts. The api would prompt for the file download location (via file dialog) but after that, how the file is filled up is up to the web client (and happens in the background). This would allow for parallel download workers via the existing get range option.

Re: W3C declares HTML5 standard complete

#44

Post by pbhjpbhj »

rimantas wrote: post #24
jaredmcateer wrote: post #8

Does anyone know how is Doctype versioning going to work with W3Cs snapshoting of the living standard? Or are browsers just going to ignore W3C and stick to implementing WHATWGs spec?

No browser ever paid any attention to the version of the HTML specified. The only use for DOCTYPE—and the reason it remains in HTML5—is "doctype switching", i.e. different rendering modes are triggered in the browsers. You can use "html", "html5", "html6.2" or "foobarbaz" as your doctype, the effect will be the same—they will all trigger standards compliant mode.

>'You can use "html", "html5", "html6.2" or "foobarbaz" as your doctype, the effect will be the same—they will all trigger standards compliant mode.' //

You're wrong if your asserting that any doctype produces the same results globally but it probably doesn't matter unless you're targeting legacy UA.

See e.g. "Appendix: Handling of Some Doctypes in text/html" at https://hsivonen.fi/doctype/ or Eric Meyer's http://archive.oreilly.com/pub/a/network/2000/04/14/doctype/... (for MacIE5 ... like I said it probably won't matter!).

Re: W3C declares HTML5 standard complete

#45

Post by pjmlp »

killertypo wrote: post #30
pjmlp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, IE9+, Firefox, Chrome, and Safari are all basically guaranteed to look at the same page in the same way, and the "toolsmith" parsers like Gumbo or html5lib are all rapidly converging on the standard. So it's finally possible to see a page the way a browser sees it. The web projects I have to take part on, are a distant reality from that description.

Is there any particular reason? Requiring support for older or legacy browsers? I just recently wrapped up a project utilizing customized Twitter Bootstrap / CSS3 / HTML5 and I was pleasantly surprised at how smooth everything went between IE/Chrome/Safari/FF. This is the first time, in a long time, that everything just "worked."

All projects tend to require IE 8+, specific versions of FF, Safari and Chrome.

Oh and the fun that is working with native iOS, Android and WP browsers.

Then put on top, whatever web framework might be required by the customer.

The fun starts when the UI isn't working pixel perfect to those Photoshop mockups or the cool HTML 5 effect that can only be partially implemented in all browser versions mentioned in a "Request For Proposal".

Re: W3C declares HTML5 standard complete

#46

Post by dragonwriter »

thristian wrote: post #32
annamarie wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HTML5 is a living standard, no? There isn't going to be an "HTML6".

The spec published by WHATWG is a living standard, and is just called "HTML". The expectation is that every so often the W3C will pick a revision of the WHATWG's HTML spec and stamp it with a version number.

> The expectation is that every so often the W3C will pick a revision of the WHATWG's HTML spec and stamp it with a version number.

W3C HTML5 is not just a snapshot of a particular revision of the WHATWG Living Standard. In a reasonable world, W3C HTML5 (etc.) would be a subset of the WHATWG Living Standard on the date the former was published, but I'm not sure that even that is strictly the case.

Re: W3C declares HTML5 standard complete

#47

Post by killertypo »

pjmlp wrote: post #45
killertypo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any particular reason? Requiring support for older or legacy browsers? I just recently wrapped up a project utilizing customized Twitter Bootstrap / CSS3 / HTML5 and I was pleasantly surprised at how smooth everything went between IE/Chrome/Safari/FF. This is the first time, in a long time, that everything just "worked."

All projects tend to require IE 8+, specific versions of FF, Safari and Chrome. Oh and the fun that is working with native iOS, Android and WP browsers. Then put on top, whatever web framework might be required by the customer. The fun starts when the UI isn't working pixel perfect to those Photoshop mockups or the cool HTML 5 effect that can only be partially implemented in all browser versions mentioned in a "Reque…

I always try to explain that pixel perfect just isn't feasible when we're going across platforms browsers and devices sizes / types.

If they would like to create 20+ different mockups and supply them to me I'll gladly do it for an exorbitant sum money, but otherwise they need to realize that the relative fluid nature of the web and it's many form factors is going to preclude them from getting that pixel perfect design.

Then all of that flies out the window because we have that one asshole manager who promises the world and ensures it will be delivered yesterday :)

Re: W3C declares HTML5 standard complete

#49

Post by leoc »

dpkendal wrote: post #10
yuhong wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they already moved to living standard.

Indeed, the W3C's work on HTML5 is irrelevant. It exists only for the purpose of giving the W3C-qua-organization the appearance of being involved in the further development of HTML.

I haven't been following the situation super-closely, but I understand that the threat of W3C not ratifying the HTML5 spec as it is (or was) has curtailed the behaviour of certain individuals on a number of occasions during the HTML5 process. If so then the W3C's involvement with HTML5 has not been at all inconsequential, even if you view the formal announcement today as unimportant.

Re: W3C declares HTML5 standard complete

#50

Post by pornel »

gsnedders wrote: post #12
dpkendal wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the W3C's work on HTML5 is irrelevant. It exists only for the purpose of giving the W3C-qua-organization the appearance of being involved in the further development of HTML.

I think that's disingenuous — even as someone who has been around the WHATWG for longer than the W3C has been working on HTML5. One clear reason that publication as a REC is important because it implies a royalty-free patent grant between all members of the WG.

It's interesting that WHATWG is trying to get the patent commitments by being a W3C Community Group:

https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/FAQ#What.27s_the_patent_story_f...

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