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Angular 2 Core

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Re: Angular 2 Core

#41

Post by colinramsay »

skore wrote: post #36

To everybody trying to make this into a tech fight about Angular vs. React/whatever, I've been repeating this like a mantra and even mentioned it in a talk on javascript once[0]: You can argue about the minor details of the tech stack till you turn green and blue, but Angular wins because it succeeds in the only metric that really counts. jQuery: (for reference) 5,656 commits 7 branches 122 releases 199 contributors…

Isn't this misguided? A better metric would be to look at the project age as well.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#42

Post by idlewan »

skore wrote: post #36

To everybody trying to make this into a tech fight about Angular vs. React/whatever, I've been repeating this like a mantra and even mentioned it in a talk on javascript once[0]: You can argue about the minor details of the tech stack till you turn green and blue, but Angular wins because it succeeds in the only metric that really counts. jQuery: (for reference) 5,656 commits 7 branches 122 releases 199 contributors…

A lot of contributors could also mean that Angular was buggy or lacking features from the start, and that people had to contribute to fix it themselves. It could also mean that the code was easy enough to understand so that more people could contribute.

I don't think you can reasonably say that there's "the only metric that really counts". All these metrics are indicators of activity anyway, not quality.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#43

Post by robert_tweed »

mateuszf wrote: post #39
skore wrote: post #36

To everybody trying to make this into a tech fight about Angular vs. React/whatever, I've been repeating this like a mantra and even mentioned it in a talk on javascript once[0]: You can argue about the minor details of the tech stack till you turn green and blue, but Angular wins because it succeeds in the only metric that really counts. jQuery: (for reference) 5,656 commits 7 branches 122 releases 199 contributors…

React is just newer. Give it some time.

Indeed. If number of contributors is the only metric that counts then, since React has more contributors than jQuery, I guess that means we shouldn't bet on jQuery. Nobody's gonna be using that fly-by-night project in a year!

Re: Angular 2 Core

#44

Post by ggregoire »

colinramsay wrote: post #38
emilis_info wrote: post #28

Guys, relax and stop whining. You are probably wrong about what is going to happen with Angular, because you underestimate how massive Angular has become. I recently began searching for a new JavaScript job. I don't like Angular at all and I am skipping all positions that mention it. I have to skip ~90% of all ads. Think of it – 90% of companies that are expanding their web development use Angular. So, even if this c…

Is this right? I can't believe for a millisecond that 90% of all new JS jobs relate to Angular, it's a horrible and overblown framework with a high barrier to entry. Were you looking at a particular subset of jobs, a particular industry or in a particular location?

> it's a horrible and overblown framework with a high barrier to entry

Actually if you have several years of experience in programming and a good knowledge of JavaScript and classical design patterns like observer and singleton, it's not that hard. Angular is to build web applications, it's necessary more complicated to use than jQuery whose purpose is to build web pages.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#45

Post by troels »

skore wrote: post #36

To everybody trying to make this into a tech fight about Angular vs. React/whatever, I've been repeating this like a mantra and even mentioned it in a talk on javascript once[0]: You can argue about the minor details of the tech stack till you turn green and blue, but Angular wins because it succeeds in the only metric that really counts. jQuery: (for reference) 5,656 commits 7 branches 122 releases 199 contributors…

Interesting view point, but number of contributors is just proxy for the real metric, which is number of users. You can have a relatively closed group of developers make something that a lot of people use.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#46

Post by ycitm »

colinramsay wrote: post #38
emilis_info wrote: post #28

Guys, relax and stop whining. You are probably wrong about what is going to happen with Angular, because you underestimate how massive Angular has become. I recently began searching for a new JavaScript job. I don't like Angular at all and I am skipping all positions that mention it. I have to skip ~90% of all ads. Think of it – 90% of companies that are expanding their web development use Angular. So, even if this c…

Is this right? I can't believe for a millisecond that 90% of all new JS jobs relate to Angular, it's a horrible and overblown framework with a high barrier to entry. Were you looking at a particular subset of jobs, a particular industry or in a particular location?

I've just been looking for JavaScript work in the UK. Certainly the majority (maybe not 90%, but definitely > 50%) of jobs mention Angular. It's difficult to tell how many of these are just "put something cool on the advert to attract the hipsters" and how many are actual "we use or will use angular heavily in production" though.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#47

Post by realusername »

I'm quite disappointed by this presentation, I see only new syntax everywhere for approximately zero benefit.

There is not even any mention to the Object.observe integration which would be the most exiting feature to improve Angular apps.

Angular looks and feels now like a Java framework, with ugly decorators and bloated APIs, that's really sad...

Re: Angular 2 Core

#48

Post by skore »

idlewan wrote: post #42
skore wrote: post #36

To everybody trying to make this into a tech fight about Angular vs. React/whatever, I've been repeating this like a mantra and even mentioned it in a talk on javascript once[0]: You can argue about the minor details of the tech stack till you turn green and blue, but Angular wins because it succeeds in the only metric that really counts. jQuery: (for reference) 5,656 commits 7 branches 122 releases 199 contributors…

A lot of contributors could also mean that Angular was buggy or lacking features from the start, and that people had to contribute to fix it themselves. It could also mean that the code was easy enough to understand so that more people could contribute. I don't think you can reasonably say that there's "the only metric that really counts". All these metrics are indicators of activity anyway, not quality.

I can only quote myself to clarify, here:

> They get community right and at the end of the day, that's the only thing that really counts.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#49

Post by rantanplan »

purpletoned wrote: post #33
bsaul wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what in react would replace all the other angularjs part not related to directives. How does react deal with routing, web service querying, unit testing, etc... It seems to me that the integrated approach of angular isn't answered by react.

There are tons of javascript libraries that are out there that offer the things you want. In most cases, they are more featureful and more stable than Angular's implementations. Router - Backbone's router, page.js etc Web service querying - simple jquery ajax calls or you could use breeze.js, pouchdb etc Unit testing - React has one built in, but you could use others too.

> There are tons of javascript libraries that are out there

And there you have your answer :)

What the JS people don't seem to grasp is that I don't care how many libraries are out there. I care even less about the incompatibilities and the different release cycles of all those libraries. By now, I hope you understand that my interest in maintaining and integrating all those into a coherent system approaches zero.

I am a software engineer and not a JS technologist. The front-end is just 1-10% of any serious system and yet, in the JS world, it takes 90% of the time building it and maintaining it. It just doesn't add up.

Imagine 10-15 years ago if we had to build GUI apps by mixing and matching 100 incoherent libraries, that in 1-5 months some of them will be obsolete, abandoned or whatnot. This is what JS has accomplished today and people just take it for granted.

Now I am sad and I will return to my crying corner.

Re: Angular 2 Core

#50

Post by Jgrubb »

colinramsay wrote: post #38
emilis_info wrote: post #28

Guys, relax and stop whining. You are probably wrong about what is going to happen with Angular, because you underestimate how massive Angular has become. I recently began searching for a new JavaScript job. I don't like Angular at all and I am skipping all positions that mention it. I have to skip ~90% of all ads. Think of it – 90% of companies that are expanding their web development use Angular. So, even if this c…

Is this right? I can't believe for a millisecond that 90% of all new JS jobs relate to Angular, it's a horrible and overblown framework with a high barrier to entry. Were you looking at a particular subset of jobs, a particular industry or in a particular location?

> it's a horrible and overblown framework with a high barrier to entry

Listen, if I can figure it out and get lots and lots of work done with it, it's neither horrible nor overblown and the barrier of entry was there but I got over it. By all means, keep ignoring it, but drop the shtick where you know better than thousands and thousands of us out here building things with it.

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