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U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

nytimes.com

41–50 of 108 posts

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because colleges have the stated goal of educating people. Its cynical (as the commenter above mentioned at the end) to join the college with no intention of actually getting educated. Its called a 'shill' or ringer - somebody you get from outside to represent you, that is not actually a member of your organization beyond the single task (sports).

> Because colleges have the stated goal of educating people. And do you suppose that people are just born being really good at sports? Of course not, it takes thousands of hours of learning/education. If we're going to treat things like math and economics as academic subjects, then I don't see how football is any different.

Agreed! With one minor correction. If the main thing you're studying is football, you should get a degree in football. I'm a big fan of imagining reforms that don't change anything but just rename things to their proper names. It's an interesting way to see the world.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#42
post #12

Why is every semi-pro athlete expected to get a decent GPA in order to play on a university's football team? It's a completely different skillset. I don't blame players for ditching classes to pursue their dreams. Quite the opposite, in fact. It's the same drive as an entrepreneur's: to test yourself, to excel. It's just a different context. They are adults. If, as adults, they choose not to pursue academic studies,…

The problem is that they're being exploited. Choose to go to class or not, they are not being paid anything remotely close to the value that these schools get from them in terms of team gear sales, ad revenue, tv time, increased enrollment, etc etc etc. This is especially true when they're turning in BS papers for crap degrees that can't and won't serve them once they leave school. A minuscule few make it pro. The re…

In the case of gridiron football the system is a subsidy to the NFL which avoids player development costs...often at taxpayer expense. Likewise, the colleges pass off youth development costs to the public high school systems...again at taxpayer expense.

For the players. this form of amateurism means they have no power to negotiate contracts to offset the risks associated with the sport.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#43
With regard to college athletes ...

I think they should be on a college team.

I think they should be going to college.

I do not think they should be paid.

Like most people, they are preparing for their future in the field of their interest.

The issue, in my opinion, is that we attempt to shoehorn them into "traditional" curriculum. They're forced to choose a major, often funneled into the easiest thing just to get through.

Fundamentally, the majority are in college to learn and prepare for life as a professional athlete (assuming we're talking about the "Big 3" sports). Let's allow them to do that. Let's provide programs that focus on that, that teach sport fundamentals, dealing with the media, managing money, dealing with agents, fundamentals of business, etc. Let's also provide routes for post-professional-sport life, like lower-level media classes, etc.

We seem to have an aversion to treating a lucrative and very real profession like something that warrants education.

Edit: The problem with $ and athletes largely applies solely to football, wherein the NCAA and NFL have colluded to force high school talent to play somewhere for three years after graduation. This is arbitrary and stupid, and forces kids into programs they don't care about, for institutions that they don't care about. This is the primary issue with not paying players. It's not that colleges don't pay, it's that there's no other opportunity to get paid.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#44
The NCAA is basically a joke when it comes to enforcing their rules on academic standards. This was made clear a couple years ago, when they hit Caltech with big penalties for lax academic standards, while basically ignoring things like the UNC scandal.

Caltech was fact was technically in violation, because it allows students to spend the first three weeks of each term taking classes without registering for them. The idea is that students can sample several classes they are interested in, then decide which they will stick with, and then register. For this three weeks, they are doing the work from all of the classes they are sampling.

However, since they are not registered for a full academic load during that three weeks, they count as part-time students, not full-time students, and so are ineligible for NCAA sports. Caltech's new director of athletics noticed this, stopped the violations, and reported his department to the NCAA.

The reaction of the press, both general and sports (Google "NCAA caltech" for details), was generally to make fun of the NCAA, and point out all the serious athletic schools routinely committing much worse, much more intentional violations.

Of course, some of the major sanctions won't have any effect. For instance, Caltech was banned from postseason play for one year. Considering that most Caltech teams are in the midst of years or even decades long losing streaks in conference play, they aren't going near the postseason anyway. They also banned off-campus recruiting...which Caltech doesn't do.

The only sanction that might have actually been noticeable was wiping out all wins of the ineligible teams. There was some initial concern that this would wipe out the basketball win over Occidental earlier that year that had snapped a 26 year, 310 conference game losing streak [1]. It turned out all the players on that team had been eligible, so the win stands.

[1] A movie was made about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Hoops

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#45
post #35
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that they're being exploited. Choose to go to class or not, they are not being paid anything remotely close to the value that these schools get from them in terms of team gear sales, ad revenue, tv time, increased enrollment, etc etc etc. This is especially true when they're turning in BS papers for crap degrees that can't and won't serve them once they leave school. A minuscule few make it pro. The re…

Well, they are getting compensation in terms of free tuition, room and board, etc... these things do have significant value. If they complete school, they get to walk away with a degree without any debt. That's not trivial. However , the athletes are only able to actualize this compensation if they can freely choose their majors, are able to take the classes they want, and actually earn their education. By creating a…

I think a brunt of the issue is that their exploitation is what is being used to generate that "significant value".

Here's an article about the latest NCAA reform vote on [edit: student-]athlete compensation: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/06/us-ncaa-rules-idUS...

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#46
post #44

The NCAA is basically a joke when it comes to enforcing their rules on academic standards. This was made clear a couple years ago, when they hit Caltech with big penalties for lax academic standards, while basically ignoring things like the UNC scandal. Caltech was fact was technically in violation, because it allows students to spend the first three weeks of each term taking classes without registering for them. The…

"Lax academic standards" at Caltech... now I've seen everything.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is every semi-pro athlete expected to get a decent GPA in order to play on a university's football team? Because there are semi-pro teams and university teams, and the two things are not the same thing. > If, as adults, they choose not to pursue academic studies, and instead choose to focus all of their energy on sports, then they should be allowed to do that without putting their sports career at risk. Sure, a…

In the case of American football, skipping college isn't an option. The NFL doesn't recruit out of high school, so a player's only option is to do 3-4 years indentured servitude at an NCAA institution.

Maybe professional sports should change the way they recruit, and leave academic institutions out of the picture. The NFL has enough money to set up a more extensive farm league system, or maybe they could have a junior league based on smaller cities?

FWIW, I have heard of the NBA showing interest in kids in high school. I am not sure if they actually recruited any of them, though.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#48
Honestly, doesn't this make anyone wonder what the point is of college in the first place? Even without the equivalent of special ed courses, it's not like most (any?) athletes study STEM courses that might require university certification. Literally the only point of their enrollment is to make money for the school, then shuffle off with a communications degree and work in a shoe store the rest of their lives.

Yes, they can get drunk and get laid for a couple years, and if they're really good they might not have to borrow too much money for the privilege. But what a complete waste of time for everyone involved. They take pointless courses for worthless degrees so the student body can burn cars when balls are thrown correctly.

Europeans have the right approach to education, even if they're still too credential-obsessed. Nobody cares about college sports, nobody goes into debt pursuing their degrees, and everyone can enter the work force much younger and start earning a few extra years of salary.

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? (I ask this in hopes of being persuaded, not to defend a position.)

Colleges are academic institutions. If you want to be semi-pro athlete rather than a student-athlete, you should join a semi-pro team rather than an academic institution.

Why do academic institutions need to have sports teams?

Re: U.N.C. Investigation Reveals ‘Shadow Curriculum’ to Help Athletes

#50

Why is every semi-pro athlete expected to get a decent GPA in order to play on a university's football team? It's a completely different skillset. I don't blame players for ditching classes to pursue their dreams. Quite the opposite, in fact. It's the same drive as an entrepreneur's: to test yourself, to excel. It's just a different context. They are adults. If, as adults, they choose not to pursue academic studies,…

> Why is every semi-pro athlete expected to get a decent GPA in order to play on a university's football team?

Because they are not semi-pro athletes. They are university students first and amateur athletes second. Or at least that's what's being claimed. And as students, they have to pass the same general education curriculum as every other student in the university, and to the same standards.

> If, as adults, they choose not to pursue academic studies, and instead choose to focus all of their energy on sports, then they should be allowed to do that without putting their sports career at risk.

Sure. But this should be done outside of a university environment. The problem is not that athletes expected to be good students. The problem is that in the US they are expected to be students at all.

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