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Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

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Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#41
post #28

EVERYONE who suffers from RSI should read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1269951 I read it about a year ago, and it was probably the single most important article I've read in my entire life. Some background: I've been using computers since I was a little kid. Used to play videos games a whole ton. Around the age of 15, I started having severe RSI-related pain in my hands. Even after I stopped gaming, I c…

Seconded. I am grateful to Aaron Iba for posting his article (http://aaroniba.net/articles/tmp/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain.htm...). I had similar experiences, and thanks to him my (severe) RSI problems are a thing of the past. There was a time when I was reduced to dictating and using touch-only keyboards (by FingerWorks) or ergonomic keyboards, and even that for a limited number of hours per day. These days I can type on anything, in any position, for any amount of time.

Let's expand on the psychosomatic illnesses a little. Now (several years later) I know that there are a number of symptoms that are caused by my mind. I know when to expect them, I can make a pretty good guess whether a given problem is mind-caused or not. What I can't do is cure them completely, still working on that. But I do know that Sarno is right.

Now, before you hit "reply" and go all-scientific, think for a moment. The problem we have is that we don't have ways to "measure" the mind. You can't easily just form control groups and do clinical trials. What works for one person might not work for another. So I can understand why doctors would rather stay away from the subject and pretend that the body and the mind are entirely separate (which is actually demonstrably untrue). They can't do anything else, as a doctor is sworn to only use scientifically-proven methods.

I see this discussion come up regularly. There are usually two groups that form: people who managed to deal with their illnesses and people who say that all this psychosomatic illnesses talk is hogwash. I am in the former group and I am worried that the latter group prevents many people from healing. So, if you suffer from things like RSI, joint or tendon pain, back pain, muscle pain, jaw pain, frequent sore throat (yes), frequent sinus/nasal infections (yes), at the very least do yourself a favor and read one of Sarno's books. I'd also suggest other sources, but I simply don't know of any, except an increasing number of studies that show that we don't understand the "placebo effect" and that the mind has much more to do with physical health than was previously thought.

Obviously, nobody suggests that any illness can be cured just by reading a book or thinking about it. There are certain physiological aspects of your body that your mind can influence and some that it can't. From what I observed myself, the two main "tools" are changing muscle tension and restricting blood flow.

And finally: nobody (least of all Sarno) is saying that you should avoid talking to doctors. The first step is always to seek medical help and eliminate any physical cause. What should alarm you is when after multiple visits to doctors you're not getting any closer to curing the problem. Unfortunately, very few doctors will tell you clearly that they have no idea what is going on, so you have to listen and think. If you're doing test after test, if your doctors say "well, let's try [medication name here]", the problem you are observing might be the symptom, not the cause.

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another data point here... After using the ergonomically suicidal Apple Magic Mouse and Apple wireless keyboard, I developed RSI after just a couple of months. I having my wrists and forearms massaged every night until the tightness went away (for the night), and I switched to a mechanical keyboard, a nice-sized gaming mouse, and started mousing with my left hand at work. I haven't had any RSI symptoms for over 2…

Yes, Apple keyboards are ergonomical disasters.

Like Jobs' "software hobbyists" the Apple was originally built for, I suppose their keyboards are truly designed for the "typing hobbyist".

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternative data point: I had severe RSI several years ago, to the point of thinking that I would have to stop programming professionally alltogether. What worked for me was starting to use a break program (10 seconds micro breaks every 5 minutes, exercises for a few minutes every 45 minutes) and switching to a more ergonomic keyboard and mouse. It worked well for me, and I am now completely recovered. More detail…

Yet another data point here... After using the ergonomically suicidal Apple Magic Mouse and Apple wireless keyboard, I developed RSI after just a couple of months. I having my wrists and forearms massaged every night until the tightness went away (for the night), and I switched to a mechanical keyboard, a nice-sized gaming mouse, and started mousing with my left hand at work. I haven't had any RSI symptoms for over 2…

That was something I taught myself at college (late high-school for those in the US) - I knew my career would be computer based, so forced myself to become natural using either hand for mousing. I switch every half an hour or so, and whilst my arms and shoulders aren't great, it's better than when I forget and do a full day on one hand.

Also have a mech at home, and seriously thinking about buying one out of my own cash for work (no way they're going to pay £100 for a keyboard...).

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#44
Great article! I have wondered if this was possible before. The only problem is eventually you might lose your voice!

I had hand/arm problems not long after starting my first programming job, but I have solved them now.

My main advice would be to get a good chair and desk. I have a RH logic 400 chair and height adjustable desk, with an Imprint Cumulus Pro floor mat. I also use a Kinesis Freestyle 2 keyboard. All together this cost about £1700, but it was absolutely worth it. I spend approx 50% of my time standing which I find much more comfortable than sitting.

My other piece of advice would be to take regular breaks. I recently became self employed which allows me to intermingle work with exercise, socialising and eating as I want. This really helps with fatigue. At least try to take a short break once an hour. I found jawbone up good for this as you can set it to vibrate after you have been sat idly for too long.

Finally, if using the mouse is a problem, learn to use your non-dominant hand. This has pretty much solved my problems with my mouse hand.

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the author of the article, I've been making the switch to programming by voice. At first, the delay was really jarring, but you get used to it. You're also completely correct about how when you speak a chain of commands, one of the commands in the middle getting messed up can invalidate the rest. That happens a lot. You learn to speak in shorter chains, and also to make the commands phonetically distinct. That s…

I know someone who does a lot of voice input, he tends to use simple sounds that are distinct as a trained syntax... like: "woof" for moving to the end of a line, and "bark" for moving back.. and other words/sounds that aren't common in conversation... he said it took some getting used to but the accuracy got a lot better.

I use the word "bark" too, albeit for a different purpose. I think that sort of spec selection is just a habit that you naturally get into when creating a lot of voice commands.

Incidentally, I've learned a bit of Korean, and it's caused me to notice that Dragon recognizes words which don't end in multiple unvoiced consonants more easily than those that do. (For example, "taze" is better than "taste" and "pad" is better than "pact".)

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#46
post #23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fortunate that I've never had rsi despite my extreme computer usage, but I'm interested in the possibilities of eye tracking for interfaces. Is it accurate enough? One simple thing that would come very handy is widget focus switching, maybe in combination with some key combo, "switch focus to where I'm looking" - that would save me a lot of reaching for the mouse.

At least at this point it's accurate to about a palm sized region, and there is a cool auto scroll demo. But getting together UI and making it useable is a pretty big project.

That's not great but it would be acceptable to switch focus between screens (or big enough tiles in a tiled desktop). Together with some clever mechanisms one could define task/tab/window groups per area and make switching much more manageable for large amounts of elements without having to surrender to "pick the mouse"-"select"-"back to the kb".

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#47

My wrist pain is so bad I've had to change profession. Nevertheless, computers are used in every job. At first, ergonomic keyboards and mice were enough. Then any kind of mice was too painful. Then I became fully ambidextrous, writing and using mice with left hand. After I maxed out the pain in that hand, I've moved onto tablets. I find almost no pain typing on a Swype keyboard on my tablet. I got Samsung Note 12.2 2…

Not as bad as you describe but there was a period when I used to click a lot (in a game) for many hours a day until it became painful. I used AutoHotkey to remap Ctrl and Alt to left and right click respectively and that was it. I'm not saying it's enough but it may help.

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#48
post #44

Great article! I have wondered if this was possible before. The only problem is eventually you might lose your voice! I had hand/arm problems not long after starting my first programming job, but I have solved them now. My main advice would be to get a good chair and desk. I have a RH logic 400 chair and height adjustable desk, with an Imprint Cumulus Pro floor mat. I also use a Kinesis Freestyle 2 keyboard. All toge…

Regarding the first line of this comment, though voice strain is something to look out for, if you speak correctly[1], you can minimize your chances of damaging your voice.

[1] http://www.mainespeechtherapy.org/content/4021/Voice_Disorde...

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#49
post #3

I'm currently trying to solve my RSI problems by going farther than the normal progression of ergonomic peripherals. If that doesn't work, I'll have to give up and go to voice control. I've designed and built my own chording keyboard, which should be 10x less stressful to type on than a normal keyboard. I also have an eye tracker that I'm going to program to use to replace most mouse tasks. I don't like the idea of i…

Which eye tracker are you using? And how big are your monitors? I bought the EyeTribe but it's getting dismal results.

I also have another Tobii EyeX sitting in a box as it's a Windows only thing and wondering if it's worth giving that a try after all...

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternative data point: I had severe RSI several years ago, to the point of thinking that I would have to stop programming professionally alltogether. What worked for me was starting to use a break program (10 seconds micro breaks every 5 minutes, exercises for a few minutes every 45 minutes) and switching to a more ergonomic keyboard and mouse. It worked well for me, and I am now completely recovered. More detail…

Yet another data point here... After using the ergonomically suicidal Apple Magic Mouse and Apple wireless keyboard, I developed RSI after just a couple of months. I having my wrists and forearms massaged every night until the tightness went away (for the night), and I switched to a mechanical keyboard, a nice-sized gaming mouse, and started mousing with my left hand at work. I haven't had any RSI symptoms for over 2…

Instead of a gaming mouse I had great success with trackballs. I have no idea why they fell out of favour - I remember them being rather popular some 10-15 years ago. Anyway, with a trackball I don't need to move my hand at all, except when switching from keyboard to mouse and back. I use this one: http://www.logitech.com/en-ca/product/trackman-marble YMMV, but I don't think I'm ever going to return to using mouse.
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