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Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

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Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#41
There are some very dubious claims in their DMCA takedown notice:

> The work, Inspeqtor which is hosted at GitHub, is far from a “clean-room” implementation. This is basically a rewrite of Monit in Go, even using the same configuration language that is used in Monit, verbatim.

There is no concept of "clean room" in copyright law, the only issue is whether or not substantial copying has occurred. While it may be easier for the author to avoid accidental copying if he has never looked at the Monit source code, having seen it, being inspired by its design, or deliberately building a compatible system do not constitute copying. The notion that it must be copying simply because it uses the same configuration language is without merit, due to the fact that the configuration language itself is not a creative work and is not eligible for copyright protection, in the same way that an API or a programming language is not eligible for such protection: it is a medium for expression, not an expression in itself - otherwise all programs written in a given programming language would be a derivative work!

I suspect that it is this misunderstanding that has led the authors of Monit to file this DMCA takedown, and that they have acted in good faith, but with an insufficient understanding of the limits of what copyright protects.

> a. [private] himself admits that Inspeqtor is "heavily influenced“ by Monit

Being heavily influenced is not the same as copying. OpenOffice Writer is heavily influenced by Microsoft Word, and can even open the same file format, but it does not copy any of Microsoft's source code.

> b. This tweet by [private] demonstrate intent. "OSS nerds: redesign and build monit in Go. Sell it commercially. Make $$$$. I will be your first customer.”

The quote was "redesign and build Monit in Go" which does not show intent to engage in substantial copying of Monit's source code. If anything, it suggests an intent to write a new, redesigned system with its own source code but compatibility with monit.

Without looking at the source code, it's hard to say more, if the author simply ported the source code of Monit to Go then it would certainly be a derived work, but the DMCA claim doesn't mention any such copying. It's important to remember that compatibility is not copying and that only the source code to a computer program is covered by copyright - its architecture, design, and even APIs (see Oracle vs Google) are not protected by copyright, because otherwise the copyright claim would effectively behave like a patent, preventing anybody else from creating something conceptually similar.

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#42
At first glance, the tweet [0] was sent a while ago, expressing desire for a port, with the idea of $$$$ as an incentive/joke. It appears that the author later decided to implement it themself. I hardly think that makes his intent to commercialize it clear.

[0] https://twitter.com/mperham/status/452160352940064768

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#43
post #42

At first glance, the tweet [0] was sent a while ago, expressing desire for a port, with the idea of $$$$ as an incentive/joke. It appears that the author later decided to implement it themself. I hardly think that makes his intent to commercialize it clear. [0] https://twitter.com/mperham/status/452160352940064768

He was already trying to sell it, starting at $25/mo.

http://contribsys.com/inspeqtor/

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#44
post #36

The timing of this seems odd to me. Why now, of all times? Is Inspeqtor getting too big or stealing too many Monit customers? It's also a little strange that the tweet Monit references as being demonstrative of intent happened six months ago [0]. If that was really the issue, shouldn't they have issued the DMCA takedown then, instead of waiting so long? I think we have about 24 hours before the DMCA's version of the…

They saw it on HackerNews about a week ago, and it took this long for their lawyers to research, make a case, and do the paperwork.

Even if you become aware of something today, you can always use historical tweets as evidence.

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#45
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of what current licenses dictate, should someone be able to port someone else's code to make a profit? Seems pretty shady to rewrite someone's code just to get around a license. Maybe this is where patents come into play.

> Maybe this is where patents come into play. No, it's a copyright issue. Patents have nothing to do with it.

Unless any method or procedure (parsing of natural language configuration files or something) is patented.

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#46
There are too many similarities between the code that suggest the source for Monit was indeed looked at, contrary to what Mike has stated on Twitter.

For instance some of the file names are the same, ie, Inspector's events.go and Monit's Event.c

Further, the code is very similar in places. Mind you it's not a direct copy, but this can't be coincidence.

Monit: https://bitbucket.org/tildeslash/monit/src/1686ffd4baa16b16d...

Inspeqtor: https://github.com/evanphx/inspeqtor/blob/master/events.go#L...

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#47

There are too many similarities between the code that suggest the source for Monit was indeed looked at, contrary to what Mike has stated on Twitter. For instance some of the file names are the same, ie, Inspector's events.go and Monit's Event.c Further, the code is very similar in places. Mind you it's not a direct copy, but this can't be coincidence. Monit: https://bitbucket.org/tildeslash/monit/src/1686ffd4baa16b1…

This is silly.

    {Event_Nonexist,   "Does not exist",          "Exists",                     "Existence changed",        "Existence not changed"},

    ProcessDoesNotExist EventType = "ProcessDoesNotExist"
These are not particularly similar, except that they express some of the same concepts, which are the concepts of the domain. A user of monit would be aware of these concepts.

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#48

There are some very dubious claims in their DMCA takedown notice: > The work, Inspeqtor which is hosted at GitHub, is far from a “clean-room” implementation. This is basically a rewrite of Monit in Go, even using the same configuration language that is used in Monit, verbatim. There is no concept of "clean room" in copyright law, the only issue is whether or not substantial copying has occurred. While it may be easie…

>There is no concept of "clean room" in copyright law, the only issue is whether or not substantial copying has occurred. While it may be easier for the author to avoid accidental copying if he has never looked at the Monit source code, having seen it, being inspired by its design, or deliberately building a compatible system do not constitute copying.

I'm far from a copyright expert, but I think there is. The equivalent of a clean room implementation would be "I read your cover text, and then wrote my own book". What Monit claims what happend would be the equivalent "I read your book in language $x, I translated it to language $y and change a few details to better target audience $z". (What Disney did, but with public domain works). That latter is relevant for copyright.

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they unclear about what copyright means? Something I've learned over the years is that, when it comes to legal issues, things are rarely black and white. In this case, whether or not Inspeqtr should be required to adhere to the AGPL probably comes down to whether or not it is legally a "derived work". And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that there isn't a large body of case law covering the situation wher…

Fair enough point, though I don't feel this is a gray area. The chilling effect alone, being that I could be sued for simply looking at open source code is disturbing. Because that's what it boils down to. Most of our software today is a derivative work of something. I looked at rails code, so does that mean I can never write a web framework lest I be sued?

> "I looked at rails code, so does that mean I can never write a web framework lest I be sued?"

No. At most it means you might have to adhere to the license Rails uses, if your work is sufficiently related to be a derived work.

Re: Monit's DMCA takedown notice for Inspeqtor

#50
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough point, though I don't feel this is a gray area. The chilling effect alone, being that I could be sued for simply looking at open source code is disturbing. Because that's what it boils down to. Most of our software today is a derivative work of something. I looked at rails code, so does that mean I can never write a web framework lest I be sued?

> " I looked at rails code, so does that mean I can never write a web framework lest I be sued? " No. At most it means you might have to adhere to the license Rails uses, if your work is sufficiently related to be a derived work.

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