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Bill Gates: Bitcoin Is 'Better Than Currency'

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Re: Bill Gates: Bitcoin Is 'Better Than Currency'

#41

Post by vobios »

vermontdevil wrote: post #4
hnnewguy wrote: post #2

“Bitcoin is better than currency in that you don’t have to be physically in the same place and, of course, for large transactions, currency can get pretty inconvenient.” Yes, bitcoin has some specific traits that are superior to carrying wads of cash. Much like many other forms of digital exchange. This is not really news.

Another advantage if I understand correctly is no middleman to deal with. No more banks and not beholden to their policies and procedures.

There is a middleman. Someone has to maintain the block chain where all the transactions are written.

Re: Bill Gates: Bitcoin Is 'Better Than Currency'

#42

Post by brighton36 »

forthefuture wrote: post #37
danbruc wrote: post #31

At the moment Bitcoin is not better than other currencies because it is a layer on top of existing currencies and their related infrastructure. Because almost nobody accepts Bitcoins there is a constant need to convert back and forth between Bitcoins and other currencies. While I really liked the idea of Bitcoin when it came into existence I now tend to believe that Bitcoin will die slowly because it does not solve a…

This is especially true for online purchases. Right now the entire ecosystem of Amazon / Paypal with banking services directly linked or through credit / debit cards, works pretty flawlessly. You can buy anything on the internet immediately with real money linked to FDIC insured banks running through two huge easily trusted middlemen, with little to no setup other than having bank account.

You are clearly an American :) Also, Amazon would approximately double its profit if it were not forced to pay the 2% markup on credit card charges. And before you criticize coinbase for their 1% conversion fee circle is here with 0% :)

Re: Bill Gates: Bitcoin Is 'Better Than Currency'

#43

Post by vobios »

bobbyhotpockets wrote: post #28

I feel like bitcoin supporters, in talking about things like the convenience and simplicity of transactions, while not incorrect, are missing the critical issues that are going to determine bitcoin's fate. If we look at bitcoin vs. US banknotes, a paypal balance, a pile of gold bars in a bunker, whatever, if we're looking at how bitcoin performs vs. all these things at the moment in time when we're transferring them…

> I can sort of squint my eyes and imagine scenarios where bitcoin, the currency, wins. What I can't see is how bitcoin, the speculative investment, also does well. That these two things are at odds leads to other issues, too, but this is already unnecessarily long.

I don't think those two things are are necessarily at odds. Many people trade well-established currencies for investment purposes. Forex is bigger than futures or equities markets with USD as the most popular currency.

Re: Bill Gates: Bitcoin Is 'Better Than Currency'

#44

Post by zwegner »

jamoes wrote: post #36
zwegner wrote: post #27

I tend to shudder when people talk about bitcoin being "cheap". There's a massive amount of energy wasted to maintain the public ledger. It became much more clear to me how this impacts the cost of transacting bitcoins after reading this article: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/how-many-bitcoins-does-... ...and particularly after seeing this graph: https://blockchain.info/charts/cost-per-transaction I'm more exc…

Proof-of-stake isn't being adopted because it simply doesn't solve the Byzayntine General's problem [1]. [1] http://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf

Interesting, thanks. I see the problem, but this paper takes as a given that individuals can introduce transactions that tilt the system in their favor. I can't immediately see a solution to this, but I don't think it's necessarily impossible.

An additional problem I just thought of, however, is that there will be some number of stakeholders that leave the network, lose their keys, etc., and there is a chance that they are the only ones chosen to sign a given history extension. So there has to be some way to recover from this, while still being resistant to denial-of-service attacks.

Re: Bill Gates: Bitcoin Is 'Better Than Currency'

#45

Post by notahacker »

brighton36 wrote: post #42
forthefuture wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is especially true for online purchases. Right now the entire ecosystem of Amazon / Paypal with banking services directly linked or through credit / debit cards, works pretty flawlessly. You can buy anything on the internet immediately with real money linked to FDIC insured banks running through two huge easily trusted middlemen, with little to no setup other than having bank account.

You are clearly an American :) Also, Amazon would approximately double its profit if it were not forced to pay the 2% markup on credit card charges. And before you criticize coinbase for their 1% conversion fee circle is here with 0% :)

Amazon will accept your credit card payment and won't accept your Bitcoins, which is a pretty good indication of which payment method they feel is more hassle than it's worth.

Re: Bill Gates: Bitcoin Is 'Better Than Currency'

#46

Post by bobbyhotpockets »

vobios wrote: post #43
bobbyhotpockets wrote: post #28

I feel like bitcoin supporters, in talking about things like the convenience and simplicity of transactions, while not incorrect, are missing the critical issues that are going to determine bitcoin's fate. If we look at bitcoin vs. US banknotes, a paypal balance, a pile of gold bars in a bunker, whatever, if we're looking at how bitcoin performs vs. all these things at the moment in time when we're transferring them…

> I can sort of squint my eyes and imagine scenarios where bitcoin, the currency, wins. What I can't see is how bitcoin, the speculative investment, also does well. That these two things are at odds leads to other issues, too, but this is already unnecessarily long. I don't think those two things are are necessarily at odds. Many people trade well-established currencies for investment purposes. Forex is bigger than f…

The speculation and trading of bitcoin, if it succeeds as a currency is a given, I think. But right now, some of its most vocal/visible supporters view it as a long term, buy and hold investment, and not just as a hedge.

With equities, no matter how far a stock price declines, profit is still there to be returned to shareholders. Other currencies don't provide the same kind of guarantees, but the backing of governments and inertia might be more valuable. Once people grow concerned that the only thing propping up the long term value of bitcoin is the person next to them believing in it, a quick reversal of sentiment, with ugly consequences, seems likely.

Re: Bill Gates: Bitcoin Is 'Better Than Currency'

#47

Post by imrehg »

notahacker wrote: post #45
brighton36 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are clearly an American :) Also, Amazon would approximately double its profit if it were not forced to pay the 2% markup on credit card charges. And before you criticize coinbase for their 1% conversion fee circle is here with 0% :)

Amazon will accept your credit card payment and won't accept your Bitcoins, which is a pretty good indication of which payment method they feel is more hassle than it's worth.

Fortunately Overstock does accept Bitcoin already[0], so it's a pretty good indicator that there are other considerations too. Also, you can use Gyft[1] to spend bitcoin on Amazon and even get a discount - if there's enough business that another company can support itself on users you are not catering for, then there's definitely a business case...

[0]: http://www.overstock.com/bitcoin [1]: http://www.gyft.com/

Re: Bill Gates: Bitcoin Is 'Better Than Currency'

#48

Post by imrehg »

bdcravens wrote: post #5
aaron-lebo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is a horribly misleading title (from the article itself). "x is better than y [at a subset of things]" could be misused in so many ways. It's tempting to completely ignore the article after seeing such a blatant distortion. However, there is some interesting stuff here. > "Bitcoin is better than currency in that you don’t have to be physically in the same place and, of course, for large transactions, curren…

> So the first feature is already covered by any bank, or Paypal, or numerous other services The point being that the power is in the hands of individuals, you needn't rely on services (though reality is most will rely on services like Circle or Coinbase)

Totally! I hate queuing in the bank to manage my account (and of course only open at the time when I'm working too). I hate that Paypal only lets me withdraw to single bank (out of like 50...) here in Taiwan because they misinterpret and misrepresent Taiwanese law (so I have to go and open an account). I hate that it takes days to handle a transfer because of the trust and verification involved. I hate that for some of the places you need particular OS or particular software to do banking (Windows and ActiveX for most banks here if they even have an online banking system, and I'm on Linux), so most often I have to actually walk to an ATM and do my business there (when they are working...).

There are a lot of bitcoin haters out there. I personally could not ever go back exclusively to the old ways. I love that finance is in my own hand!

By the way, this makes me much more generous as well! (I've donated much more via bitcoin directly to people I wanted to support than I'd ever done via fiat: too much hustle, too big cut by others, and they also have their independence and choices of cashing the coins out if they need, or use whatever they want to manage it).

Re: Bill Gates: Bitcoin Is 'Better Than Currency'

#49

Post by imrehg »

Lambdanaut wrote: post #17
k-mcgrady wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "I mean, anyone who ever used bitcoin will see how it's clearly superior than going to a bank office, getting an account, waiting days for it all to work out." I've been interested enough to try cryptocurrencies. I have never been able to buy a BitCoin. Why? Because the blockchain is so big I've never been able to download it. I leave my client open for a couple of weeks and then give up. I managed to get some Dog…

You don't have to download the entire blockchain to use bitcoin. See alternative wallets: * https://electrum.org/ * https://multibit.org/

Another vote for Electrum, it's awesome! For mobile, try Mycelium[0] (on Android).

[0]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mycelium.w...

Re: Bill Gates: Bitcoin Is 'Better Than Currency'

#50

Post by gst »

gress wrote: post #32
gst wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want to use a bank account you can use https://mycelium.com/ or https://localbitcoins.com/ . Or just use https://bitpay.com/getbits and check if one of your friends on Facebook is selling coins.

Buying a western union check and meeting someone in an alleyway to get a thumb drive is easier than just using a bank? I think not.

Of course it's not. But the argument of the parent poster was that you require a bank account. Also, most experienced traders on https://localbitcoins.com/ will prefer to meet in a very public place or in a police station, instead of an alleyway.
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